NFL Hall of Shame

[Ken Gargett]

i see that the great hog, joe jacoby, has been passed over yet again.

shame, NFL, shame.

seriously, jerry jones a candidate? he gets up and they'll need a ringmaster and a trapeze (they already have enough clowns) because it will be a circus.

one of the great NFL careers as a left tackle, in what many regard as the greatest O line of all time (yes, can argue that but it is certainly one of, if not the greatest).

went from undrafted to one of the greats. 170 games, most of them starts. 4 superbowl appearances and three rings, four consecutive pro bowls. all pro several times. was the bloke who broke open the dolphins and led the blocking for the famous riggins run to win their first superbowl. led the O line to enable a record in running yards that superbowl, only to be beaten when he next led the O line in the superbowl thrashing of denver (hell, i could have gone through the holes they made that day, in a wheelchair - it allowed a bloke making his first NFL start to run over 200 yards in a superbowl!!).

the next superbowl, the O line, led by jacoby, allowed the skins QB to be sacked just nine times. in the entire season! this was a bloke who regularly faced some of the game's greatest (some twice a year) like lawrence taylor and charles haley (who have said it is absurd he is not there). only one hog has made the hall of shame - russ grimm, and even his teammates have all said that while he was good, jacoby was better.

by not including jacoby, they have demeaned the entire institution. not happy.

[PatrickEwing]

Concur. 

Meanwhile, Davis, as briefly prolific as he was, gets in. Davis was a great back in an ideal system for 3 (could argue 4) years and then injuries took their toll. 

For reference, Davis gets hurt in 1999. Brian Griese is the QB. Goes without saying he's no Elway and therefore opposing D should be keying on the run and Olandis Gary still runs for 1150 yards. In 2000, Mike Anderson gets 1500. 

If you're rewarding Davis for his contribution to SB winning teams, then Ken has a point with Jacoby. 

If it weren't for the run with Arizona, I'd be arguing similarly about Warner. 

[Ken Gargett]

14 minutes ago, PatrickEwing said:

Concur. 

Meanwhile, Davis, as briefly prolific as he was, gets in. Davis was a great back in an ideal system for 3 (could argue 4) years and then injuries took their toll. 

For reference, Davis gets hurt in 1999. Brian Griese is the QB. Goes without saying he's no Elway and therefore opposing D should be keying on the run and Olandis Gary still runs for 1150 yards. In 2000, Mike Anderson gets 1500. 

If you're rewarding Davis for his contribution to SB winning teams, then Ken has a point with Jacoby. 

If it weren't for the run with Arizona, I'd be arguing similarly about Warner. 

i saw someone post the stats for warner. sure, a brief shining run and the pot of gold at the end, but should that really be considered a hall of fame career? if that is the criteria, then mark rypien is just as deserving. so too, brad johnson (who had quite similar stats). indeed, pretty much any QB who won a superbowl.

this lot - tomlinson undoubtedly. doubt any would argue.davis, well covered above. taylor? probably fair enough but zero superbowls to joe J's three wins? anderson? his main talent seems to have been longevity. sure, a very good kicker but as someone said, anyone remember him making many long distance clutch kicks to win games? not many. and he missed a few. jerry jones - the most absurd result of any election on this planet in the last 12 months, bar none. none. and there have been some doosies.

[PatrickEwing]

I'm good with Taylor and Morten. Taylor was damn good and Morten was on two All Decade Teams. Plus we needed a Danish HOF'er.

I think we're finding Super Bowls have an outsized bearing on the process. If not obvious already. Eli will waltz in one day  and I'll be smiling about that, but can't say the same for many others.

Owens' talent and production should have been rewarded. Tim Brown had to wait six or seven years. If Chris Johnson had won a couple Super Bowls while putting up his numbers from a few years back would he be getting in? Tiki Barber arguably had a better stretch than Davis, but no SB. 

Davis' best season ranks 19th all time for yards from scrimmage. A lot of guys with similarly impressive 3-4 year blocks are above him but won't ever sniff the HOF.

Perhaps not a Hall of Shame, but at the least Hall of Sham  

 

[Ken Gargett]

3 minutes ago, PatrickEwing said:

I'm good with Taylor and Morten. Taylor was damn good and Morten was on two All Decade Teams. Plus we needed a Danish HOF'er.

I think we're finding Super Bowls have an outsized bearing on the process. If not obvious already. Eli will waltz in one day  and I'll be smiling about that, but can't say the same for many others.

Owens' talent and production should have been rewarded. Tim Brown had to wait six or seven years. If Chris Johnson had won a couple Super Bowls while putting up his numbers from a few years back would he be getting in? Tiki Barber arguably had a better stretch than Davis, but no SB. 

Davis' best season ranks 19th all time for yards from scrimmage. A lot of guys with similarly impressive 3-4 year blocks are above him but won't ever sniff the HOF.

Perhaps not a Hall of Shame, but at the least Hall of Sham  

 

i'd agree re the superbowls but then we have jacoby winning three and making another and gets nowhere. and one could add a few other skins from that era. but i think you are right when a QB is considered. then, superbowls matter.

don't think anyone could really argue too hard against eli (you can argue one superbowl was very lucky but he has done far more. the brothers manning are hof bound.

chris johnson? i meant brad! that is how absurd this is.

[PatrickEwing]

8 minutes ago, Ken Gargett said:

i'd agree re the superbowls but then we have jacoby winning three and making another and gets nowhere. and one could add a few other skins from that era. but i think you are right when a QB is considered. then, superbowls matter.

don't think anyone could really argue too hard against eli (you can argue one superbowl was very lucky but he has done far more. the brothers manning are hof bound.

chris johnson? i meant brad! that is how absurd this is.

Sorry! Knew you had meant Brad but had moved onto another Johnson

Well. Linemen are an abused class and that's a whole story in itself. At least they get monster money in the right situations. The HOF still acts as GMs and Jerry Jones' did in the early 90s. Big names at flashy positions. However, great linemen are drafted early and often. Build a line and you can find a back. A Barry Sanders like talent is once every decade or two at best. The best you should hope for is a durable bruiser like Emmitt or Bettis, but those guys needed great lines! Certainly they were no doubt HOF and top ten level talent but they got plenty of help. 

It will be curious if Zekes rookie season might get some GMs scurrying back to the backs in this draft. RBs had been so out of vogue and considered interchangeable that I wonder if the pendulum might swing unduly back for a couple years. 

[Ken Gargett]

32 minutes ago, PatrickEwing said:

Sorry! Knew you had meant Brad but had moved onto another Johnson

Well. Linemen are an abused class and that's a whole story in itself. At least they get monster money in the right situations. The HOF still acts as GMs and Jerry Jones' did in the early 90s. Big names at flashy positions. However, great linemen are drafted early and often. Build a line and you can find a back. A Barry Sanders like talent is once every decade or two at best. The best you should hope for is a durable bruiser like Emmitt or Bettis, but those guys needed great lines! Certainly they were no doubt HOF and top ten level talent but they got plenty of help. 

It will be curious if Zekes rookie season might get some GMs scurrying back to the backs in this draft. RBs had been so out of vogue and considered interchangeable that I wonder if the pendulum might swing unduly back for a couple years. 

been having exactly the same thoughts re running backs. keen to see what happens.

[Danimalia]

Jerry Jones getting in over TO in shows what a farce HOF voting is. It's OK to exclude players for being a bad teammate, but no problem that Jerry Jones sure did so much damage to his team running Jimmy Johnson out of town and then insisting on being the GM. Or hell, more recently when Jones in the past year downplayed the health concerns of head trauma and was ACTUALLY CAUGHT ATTEMPTING TO INTIMIDATE an NFL investigator looking into to the Ezekiel Elliot DV allegations. I mean, come on... The NFL writers constantly contribute to the pervasive owner-worship we see in football. They want to pretend to be the moral arbiters of the game, and they fail miserably at it. It's gross, and more than a bit shady. 

And then there are guys who had clear HOF careers, and no character issues. Guys like Tim Brown and Christ Carter. How many years did it take for them to get in?

Joe Jacoby was before my time, mostly, but a multiple-time first team all-pro on a legendary line that won 3 Super Bowls sure seems like a rock solid case when guys like Kurt Warner and Terrell Davis are getting elected. 

[anacostiakat]

Great player!  I am with you on this one all the way!!!

[JohnInCleveland]

I went to a Cowboys Browns game in the prime of TO's career.  I had the worst seats you could have, but it gave me an interesting perspective on watching TO.  

 

That man wasn't human.  I could see the field like it was a videogame and at his height of his powers, he was open on nearly every single play.  The only limitation was Romo's ability to get protected long enough to throw the 60 yd TDs.

 

And yes, it was the Browns but I'm fairly certain he looked this open most of the time in his prime.  He was an enormous dick but an even more enormous talent.  He'll be in the Hall next year, they just wanted him to kiss their ring after a lifetime of 0 humility.  

[Dozerhead]

I thought it was a joke that Alan Faneca didn't make it. He went to 9 pro-bowls but more importantly was an All-Pro an amazing 6 times! 

[Jefferson]

Oh, I thought this was going to be about the Chief's post season prowess. 

Its not easy being a KC fan. 

[perkinke]

This kind of thing happens in almost all sports, the guys who really drive a team's success are often overlooked in favor of "skill" positions. Linemen in American football, defenders in football, defensively-focused players in basketball, etc. the problem is that you have to really know the game you're working with to see and understand their contributions. Older generations of writers got it, the last and current generations don't seem to take the time to really understand the games they cover.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk