Feedback on proposed new setup

[SaorEire]

So I'm planning to upgrade my setup to a temperature controlled humidor, where I live now has no A/C,  and a electronic humidifier. I am looking at what I have linked below from Amazon. Any thoughts or advice from the seasoned veterans on here?

Thanks.

https://www.amazon.com/Whynter-CHC-120S-Stainless-Cooler-Humidor/dp/B00KO95RVO/ 

https://www.amazon.com/Cigar-Oasis-Excel-Electronic-Humidifier/dp/B00JWYXBKG/

[SaorEire]

Anyone?

[BEVOSREVENGE]

Try this

http://www.friendsofhabanos.com/forum/topic/123890-whynter-or-newair-pre-fab-frigadors/

 

[PigFish]

Since no one has taken this on, I suppose I will.

 

Do you know why you want this stuff? No, this is not a trick question.

 

Is there a reason that you require a temperature controlled space, especially one so small?

 

Do you have any experience making climate controlled humidors?

 

Have you checked your ambient conditions to see if heat control is really a necessity?

 

Have you attempted to store cigars in a passive environment and failed to achieve your storage goals/needs?

 

Have you contacted the maker of this cooler, this box they call a humidor and asked them if it really works? Were they willing to send you some data logs of the project working in your ambient to prove to you that it works?

 

If you have answered no to any of these questions, my suggestion is that you rethink your strategy and likely save yourself a bunch of money.

 

While I tend to offend many people on this forum discussing wine cooler humidors, frankly I doubt there is anyone who knows more about this than I do. I have to assume that if one posts questions like this, they really don’t know the realm that they are about to enter and they should probably be given straight talk about the topic. Were you looking for straight talk?

 

From my knowledge and experience, this project has failure written all over it. Accept my apology if that is not what you wanted to hear! I have more-or-less run out of nice ways to tell folks that these DIY wine cooler systems rarely work for people unless they really know what they are doing or have a system that is known to work, proven to work to emulate. If you want to know how I know this, I have built these systems for the better part of a decade now. I am the guy on this forum that people email when their DIY wine cooler does not work, and this is after they spent the money… The answer is always the same, unplug it, sell it, trash it and/or start over.

 

Or, of course one can spend a bunch for me engineer it for them and make it work. But, I would never take money from a guy to build something this small.

 

Best of luck on your project… and welcome to the forum.

 

-Piggy

[SaorEire]

On 8/27/2016 at 8:41 AM, PigFish said:

Since no one has taken this on, I suppose I will.

 

Do you know why you want this stuff? No, this is not a trick question.

 

Is there a reason that you require a temperature controlled space, especially one so small?

 

Do you have any experience making climate controlled humidors?

 

Have you checked your ambient conditions to see if heat control is really a necessity?

 

Have you attempted to store cigars in a passive environment and failed to achieve your storage goals/needs?

 

Have you contacted the maker of this cooler, this box they call a humidor and asked them if it really works? Were they willing to send you some data logs of the project working in your ambient to prove to you that it works?

 

If you have answered no to any of these questions, my suggestion is that you rethink your strategy and likely save yourself a bunch of money.

 

While I tend to offend many people on this forum discussing wine cooler humidors, frankly I doubt there is anyone who knows more about this than I do. I have to assume that if one posts questions like this, they really don’t know the realm that they are about to enter and they should probably be given straight talk about the topic. Were you looking for straight talk?

 

From my knowledge and experience, this project has failure written all over it. Accept my apology if that is not what you wanted to hear! I have more-or-less run out of nice ways to tell folks that these DIY wine cooler systems rarely work for people unless they really know what they are doing or have a system that is known to work, proven to work to emulate. If you want to know how I know this, I have built these systems for the better part of a decade now. I am the guy on this forum that people email when their DIY wine cooler does not work, and this is after they spent the money… The answer is always the same, unplug it, sell it, trash it and/or start over.

 

Or, of course one can spend a bunch for me engineer it for them and make it work. But, I would never take money from a guy to build something this small.

 

Best of luck on your project… and welcome to the forum.

 

-Piggy

I want it because I live in a place without A/C and I am not allowed to install one. The temperature can get up to 100°F in the summer. And the humidity fluctuates greatly. I am also running out room in my 2 desktop humidors so I was thinking of solving both problems at once. I have read a lot of reviews of the Whynter and the vast majority have been positive, including the thread linked above. With regards to the electronic humidifier, I was thinking it would just be easier, and in the long run save me money by not having to by Boveda packs. However, I am thinking if I go with this unit, to try beads and a battery operated fan instead, if that works no need to spend the extra $100 on the humidifier. 

That said, I am still new to all this, which is why I am asking for advice, so thank you for taking the time to give me feedback. 

[PigFish]

I am sorry my friend, this is not going to work for you!

Without sounding conceited here, I am an expert at this. And while I don't want to kill your dream, I hate to see your waste your money.

This is a link to my YouBoob channel and it discusses why I chose a compressor cooler. While it might not seem an unimportant correlation, this demonstration runs and 95F. I don't think anyone else builds a humidor (that actually works) that can do this.

Watch the video (please). 

I don't know a thing about this cooler that you are looking at, but if I had to hazard a guess, you might get some use out of it at say 74-75-76F. Above 80F, no way. Above 90, not a chance!

I am not saying that you cannot store your cigars at 100F. What I am saying is that this setup is not going to help you do it. You had better come to grips with just dealing with your environment.

What you might consider doing is just buying an old wine cooler off of eBay or Craigs. Take out all the shelves and consider attempting to control the temp to 70F, maybe 75F. Buy airtight containers and load them with 60-65rH Bovidas. Keep the cigars sealed at all times except when choosing. THIS WILL WORK, IF YOU DON'T KILL YOUR COOLER. THEY ARE NOT REALLY DESIGNED TO RUN IN TEMPS THIS HIGH. Yes, I do it, but I short cycle the coolers and I don't cook them!

There are lot of guys that do this. I don't, but the system works (is claimed to work) for those who have built them. This is your best bet and will likely save you some money if you shop smart. YOU DON'T WANT A HYDRA OR ACTIVE HUMIDIFIER.

Best of luck! -Piggy

[SaorEire]

I apologize if I'm not understanding you correctly, but would it be possible to covert a small mini-fridge to a humidor? Or would that run too cold for these purposes? 

It seems that you're saying the humidor I'm asking about would work fine most of the year, but not during the summer months when I truly need it when it is 80F+.  Or just buy a compressor cooled winer cooler?

[PigFish]

Working is a matter of opinion. Did you watch the video?

If yes, you may have come to the understanding that ambient conditions play a major role in humidor function. That is why I asked you to watch it.

So lets use a real example. Lets say you store at 70F and the ambient is 70F. You put this project into service at that ambient and setting. Does it work? Well, maybe, because it never turns on! How about 71F then and say on to 72F etc...? The Hydra will introduce free water into the project and it will creep into high rH and you will have to pull it out. A closely monitored desiccant humidifier 'may' work for you. But water in a humidifier is not going to work. 

Lets say it cycles say once every 3 hours, 4 hours, 6 hours... Does it work? Well a data logger will tell you based on your interpretation of the data. Huge cycles, whereas the box cycles to 40rH and takes 3 hours to recover is not working to me. Is that working to you?

You see, I don't define working for anyone but me.

Now lets say that the box cycles every 20 minutes, the depth and recover time is 1, 2, 3 hours... Do you see a problem? I do!

In my world then, the project, being half poorly automated on the temperature side (poor controller logic and too low a set point) and then poorly automated on the rH side (even with the Hydra) is not a solution, it is a further problem.

There are those on this forum, and elsewhere, that have come to the understanding that the fully automated control of a wine cooler humidor is outside of their skill set. Yet, they don't abandoned the idea of temperature control due. They then set up individual micro climates inside the stable cool space and simply maintain those separately. They use the cooler to control heat and then an airtight (watertight) system to maintain rH passively. Does this work? Well, I also see problems with it depending on air exchanges, but I recognize that it can work... especially if you pick a realistic temperature set point.

In my world view two systems work. One system is based on an ambient that is your desired store point. That system is pretty much perfect! I don't have that on Isla Piggy! What I have is a wild range of temperatures and humidities, living largely in a desert type climate, close to the coast. In my world, the next best thing to a perfect ambient is a precision controlled, fully controlled and monitored microclimate.

For others there are gray areas and ranges that exist for them. Since none of them bothered to assist you here the 'majority' opinion here appears to be mine! Knowing a wide range of at least potential, lesser expensive solutions I made my suggestion to you based on what I consider the 'only' viable solution for you. In your conditions, even the well known humidor makers project will fail. The TE coolers that make up those systems cannot handle the delta (T).

I would tend to not choose a mini fridge. Why? The design elements will cause water to rain down on your microclimates (at least potentially). You will likely get mildew in the project. I am not going to go into a vast discussion about refrigerator design here. A mid-sized compressor wine cooler is your best bet (depending on the design). You will still need (IMHO) to override the standard cooling system at say 64 to 66F. I think this is too cold for cigars but that is a debatable point. Cold cigars, once opened to your 80F ambient will immediately get a huge dose of water in the air exchange. Watch my video on air exchanges! You do this a couple times a day and your micro climates will likely be far wetter than you anticipated as the passive ambients take an enormous time to 'heal' from the air exchange. If the water has no place to go, it binds to the cigars. You end up with wet cigars that you cannot dry.

Your best alternative is what I have previously suggested. No, I don't use that system myself, it is substandard in my opinion. I hold the bar rather high. Yet the viability of any system is for you to decide for yourself and not up to me. You asked some questions, I saw them as mistakes (money on resources that will not likely work) and that is really about all that I can do.

My role is to help you if you can, but I cannot define a system that you may consider adequate. You asked, I gave my opinion. You need to understand that I am not the final word here. I see what you suggested as a train wreck, but you could build it and think it is the best thing since the Behike! What I wanted to do was warn you based on my experience and my opinion. I wanted to present to you, what I see as the pitfalls. You need to weigh the options.

If you have further questions, just post them up, but please understand it is not my role to tell the populace what works and what does not. You will need to do that for yourself. I just hate to see people waste their money so I figured I would tell you some of what will likely come out of the endeavor.

Best of luck on your project. -Piggy

[MrCrowley39]

I am sorry my friend, this is not going to work for you!

Without sounding conceited here, I am an expert at this. And while I don't want to kill your dream, I hate to see your waste your money.

This is a link to my YouBoob channel and it discusses why I chose a compressor cooler. While it might not seem an unimportant correlation, this demonstration runs and 95F. I don't think anyone else builds a humidor (that actually works) that can do this.

Watch the video (please). 

I don't know a thing about this cooler that you are looking at, but if I had to hazard a guess, you might get some use out of it at say 74-75-76F. Above 80F, no way. Above 90, not a chance!

I am not saying that you cannot store your cigars at 100F. What I am saying is that this setup is not going to help you do it. You had better come to grips with just dealing with your environment.

What you might consider doing is just buying an old wine cooler off of eBay or Craigs. Take out all the shelves and consider attempting to control the temp to 70F, maybe 75F. Buy airtight containers and load them with 60-65rH Bovidas. Keep the cigars sealed at all times except when choosing. THIS WILL WORK, IF YOU DON'T KILL YOUR COOLER. THEY ARE NOT REALLY DESIGNED TO RUN IN TEMPS THIS HIGH. Yes, I do it, but I short cycle the coolers and I don't cook them!

There are lot of guys that do this. I don't, but the system works (is claimed to work) for those who have built them. This is your best bet and will likely save you some money if you shop smart. YOU DON'T WANT A HYDRA OR ACTIVE HUMIDIFIER.

Best of luck! -Piggy

From personal experience this right here is bang on 100% solid advice. I have the larger version and anything above 10° temp variance between inside and outside causes severe condensation issues. Also tried the electronic humidifier in it and it failed as well (the unit works but not for this application). I moved my cooler to an a/c room and it works great now. I have some upgrades planned for it in the winter that may or may not work, but knowing now what I didn't know than, I wouldn't have bought mine either. Look beyond the "cool" factor and choose functionality above all else. My planned upgrades are much better cooling fans for the cooling block that should give me at least a 15° temp buffer and I can then move it back to the basement where I want it's permanent home to be.

Sent From My Samsung Galaxy Tab S2 Using Tapatalk

[SaorEire]

I appreciate the honest feedback. You definitely saved me from spending $300 on something that won't work for what I need it for. I think I will look into getting a larger humidor, and look at keeping at another location in the summer months. I am a seminary student, so I am only here at the end of Summer.

So my question is, am I doing any serious damage to my cigars by keeping them in a room that can get to 80F+ in August and September (I live not far from Chicago)? 

Thanks again.

[PigFish]

One problem with some cigar related chatter is that very few people discuss the results of problems and failures. They move on, yet their initial elation with some products stays posted in online forums into the future, rarely recanted. I am glad that someone with one, has taken the opportunity to chime in.

About your other question. No, not at all. Cigars are made in the tropics 80F is not a problem (MHO). Just adjust your rH accordingly. You may find that numbers given by the greater audience might be too dry. At 80F for instance I would likely abandon my typical 60rH for higher numbers. The good news is that the warmer conditions will allow you to change rH more readily. Water will be harder to keep in the cigar and therefore it will be easier to dry them. I use a rule of thumb 3.5 to 1. This means that if I were to store at 80F 10/3.5 nets me a 2.86. I would look at a start point of 63rH to maintain my PMC. I store dryer than most people (just FYI).

Since not all members frequent the humidor tutor forum, you should start a new thread for your new question, even move it to the 'water hole' for more joy and get a wider array of participants. Again, my 2 cents.

-Piggy

[Hurltim]

Dude, that video is crazy. You are crazy Ray. Pure mad scientist.

Love it!

You are #1 on my list of "gotta have a beer with."