Wineador Problem! SOS

[Zedman05]

Basic principal;
1 cubic foot of air at 70 F containts 3 droplets of moisture in it = 50% humidity.
Same cubic foot of air reduced to 60 F would give you closer to 75% humidity.
The colder air cannot hold as much moisture, and thus constricts, which then in turn causes that same 3 droplets to take up mosre room in that same volume of colder air.

5% humidity at -20 = 50 % at 68 F....generally. Give or take a bit.

Cigar F^iend

[PigFish]

Goo, this one is on you mate! -Piggy

[Fugu]

Absolutely agree, we are coming from the same end, Piggy. What I wanted to make clear was, that a full humi is comparatively resilient and robust (by nature of inertia) with respect to short-term rH eventualities. But, as you say, a quality system has to prove its function without any dampening element. Does it do its stabilizing job under those conditions, it will usually do under conditons with more dampening as well. Completely in agreement.

Coming to mind here are the two "philosophies" of high-end record players as a simple but figurative analogon: There is the one using simple electronics and motor hardware, but implementing a belt driven high-mass turntable as stabilizing element in order to keep revolution speed constant. And then, there is the other concept utilizing a processor-controlled, direct-driven axle drive. Both systems serve their purpose flawlessly under "normal", i.e. widely undisturbed conditions. However, as soon as once brought out of balance, the inertia-based system will be taking much, much longer to get back to normal working state, might even overshoot, compared to the twinkle-toed processor-controlled system, monitoring driving speed at high sampling rate and logically adjusting torque output as needed to bring it back to normal operation within a minimum period of time.

Goes without saying which of the two would be the preferred system for cigar storage....

[Lewinsky]

I'm pretty new to the forum and I've been reading PigFish's and Fugus posts with interest, but my feeling is that cigar climatology is their hobby and that the talk of hysteresis and analogies to high-end record players aren't hugely relevant to the concerns of most cigar smokers, who just want to store their cigars in sufficiently stable conditions for them to smoke well, not become mouldy and not be eaten by beetles! For many people (including myself), that just means large coolers / tupperware boxes, beads and hygrometers.

Don't get me wrong, I have nothing at all against people taking a scientific interest in humidity and temperature control, and PigFish and Fugu are clearly very helpful when it comes to offering troubleshooting advice to people who are running into difficulties with their setups. But this focus on the technicalities runs the risk of making new cigar smokers paranoid that if they don't have an active system / data loggers / a PhD in cigar climatology, their cigars are going to disintegrate into a soggy pool or be devoured by rampaging beetles. The quest for perfect storage conditions may be interesting, but most of us will be happy with conditions that are 'good enough' to avoid major swings in humidity and temperature. Of course, the setup that will be good enough for you depends on how much of a perfectionist you are and the climate in your part of the world, and may well require some trial and error. But for those of us who live in temperate climates and who can live with small variations in RH and temperature, a coolidor / tupperdor and some beads are likely to be sufficient IMO. Well, that's my experience anyway, but don't let me interrupt the climatology research! 

[PigFish]

Brandon, if you are reading this you may just be right!

-the Pig

[Fugu]

10 hours ago, Lewinsky said:

....aren't hugely relevant to the concerns of most cigar smokers, who just want to store their cigars in sufficiently stable conditions for them to smoke well, not become mouldy and not be eaten by beetles! For many people (including myself), that just means large coolers / tupperware boxes, beads and hygrometers.

Mate, your respected mindset, and good on you if you find this to be the best way of dealing with it. You are certainly not alone with that. But fully understanding what's going on is a prerequisite for proper medium and long-term storage.

If you know what you are doing storage is really simple. A non-issue actually. But the regular questions popping up from members on the matter and the repeated, almost sisyphean input requested from PigFish and some others in the know should be proof enough that the matter is of relevance and concern to a lot of S/BOTLs. Alas, answers aren't always trivial.

Only if you (read: general S/BOTL) are aware of what you have and what you do, can you reasonably decide on what you need. In fact, all else will be producing 'paranoia', as you put it. And perhaps the result of your thorough assessment will be that your environmental conditions indeed allow you to keep it simple. Fine! (am always an advocate of keeping things simple). But being ignorant just out of not willing to - mind you, not due to not being capable of - investing a minimum amount of brain work, I'd call it intellectual inertia (to avoid using 'lazyness' again...), is setting your collection at risk.

 

Apostil: Not at all a hobby for me (I actually invest very little time in this, as I am interested in smoking cigars - their storage is a necessary evil that comes with it), and for Piggy it's a profession.

 

[Lewinsky]

12 minutes ago, Fugu said:

Mate, your respected mindset, and good on you if you find this to be the best way of dealing with it. You are certainly not alone with that. But fully understanding what's going on is a prerequisite for proper medium and long-term storage.

If you know what you are doing storage is really simple. A non-issue actually. But the regular questions popping up from members on the matter and the repeated, almost sisyphean input requested from PigFish and some others in the know should be proof enough that the matter is of relevance and concern to a lot of S/BOTLs. Alas, answers aren't always trivial.

Only if you (read: general S/BOTL) are aware of what you have and what you do, can you reasonably decide on what you need. In fact, all else will be producing 'paranoia', as you put it. And perhaps the result of your thorough assessment will be that your environmental conditions indeed allow you to keep it simple. Fine! (am always an advocate of keeping things simple). But being ignorant just out of not willing to - mind you, not due to not being capable of - investing a minimum amount of brain work, I'd call it intellectual inertia (to avoid using 'lazyness' again...), is setting your collection at risk.

 

Apostil: Not at all a hobby for me (I actually invest very little time in this, as I am interested in smoking cigars - their storage is a necessary evil that comes with it), and for Piggy it's a profession.

 

Maybe I was a touch harsh last night. It's not that 'cigar climatology' is irrelevant to our concerns, but rather that keeping things simple can and does work for many cigar smokers. I guess that my point is that unless you have a professional or scientific interest in cigar climatology, there's no need to complicate things beyond what allows you to maintain relatively stable storage conditions. Of course, someone who lives in the tropics is probably going to need a more complex system (including active cooling) to maintain that relative stability than someone who lives in a temperate climate. Discussion of active systems and the principles that underlie them is therefore undoubtedly helpful to some cigar smokers. But others will find such things unnecessary. 

Ultimately, my take-home message to new cigar smokers is this: Reading up on or asking questions about temperature, humidity, etc. is important if you want to find the right storage conditions for your cigars. But don't simply assume that you need an active system to keep your cigars in good condition. If you have a simple tupperdor or coolidor setup, your cigars are smoking well and you're not experiencing any issues, then you probably don't need to 'upgrade'. Of course, ignorance of how temperature and humidity affect cigars can cause paranoia, and I certainly wouldn't advise anyone to be "intellectually inert" about these things. But paranoia can also be caused by the perception that one's system isn't sufficiently 'controlled' and 'accurate', even if it isn't having any noticeable detrimental effects on one's cigars. You and Piggy do an excellent job of putting people's minds at rest when it comes to the former kind of paranoia. I guess that I'm just trying to put people's minds at rest when it comes to the latter. 

 

[Fugu]

1 hour ago, Lewinsky said:

You and Piggy do an excellent job of putting people's minds at rest when it comes to the former kind of paranoia. I guess that I'm just trying to put people's minds at rest when it comes to the latter.

That's absolutely fine. But it seems you are following this subject only very recently. If you'd do a search, you'd quickly learn that your impression lacks a foundation. Best solution is the simplest solution for a given setting. A lot of members here living in perfect freedom with their coolderdors. Nothing wrong with that. But when there are detailed questions arising to certain problems, as in this very topic here, detailed answers have to be given. You may have noticed (if not, pls get back to the start of this thread) how careful and restrained PigFish approached the OP, taking pains not to overburden him with information. The OP just has a cooled system, so explanations will never be simple.

[Lewinsky]

1 hour ago, Fugu said:

That's absolutely fine. But it seems you are following this subject only very recently. If you'd do a search, you'd quickly learn that your impression lacks a foundation. Best solution is the simplest solution for a given setting. A lot of members here living in perfect freedom with their coolderdors. Nothing wrong with that. But when there are detailed questions arising to certain problems, as in this very topic here, detailed answers have to be given. You may have noticed (if not, pls get back to the start of this thread) how careful and restrained PigFish approached the OP, taking pains not to overburden him with information. The OP just has a cooled system, so explanations will never be simple.

For the record, I don't think that PigFish's replies to the OP were in any way inappropriate. He gave detailed replies to detailed questions and was clearly being helpful. But if FOH is anything like most other forums, there were probably a few people reading but not participating in the discussion, which may well have included some new cigar smokers. And when I first started smoking and storing cigars, I think that I'd have been very worried by the talk of passive systems being down to luck and the references to all the problems that people have had with them. In fact, it might have caused me to run out and spend a load of money on a wine cooler, which (for me) would have been an unnecessary purchase. So I thought that it was worthwhile to remind people that "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" is a reasonable way to approach cigar storage, because there's no reason to spend money on upgrading your setup if it's working well for you. 

[PigFish]

I find it interesting that ‘lack of knowledge’ is a recurring theme of this thread. How knowledge is  postulated as being responsible for paranoia, where none existed before those who are without it, brought it up, causes me some confusion. I must say, I am at a bit of a loss as to how a direct answer (plus some friendly banter between mates) equates to paranoia amongst the members. I am not convinced that the membership is this fragile!

 

I have been a member here for 11 years. In those 11 years I still cannot claim to have a grasp of what the membership wants! Instead I rely on specific questions (mainly) and deal with membership in two parts; those that ask for specific data and those that don’t, yet might benefit from it. I don’t really judge what the membership wants, I respond to questions and focus more on what content is required to answer it and how “I” want to answer it. Beyond trying to courteous and lighthearted I cannot say that I tailor my responses to pander to anyone! Frankly, I would never even consider some wild speculation about “what the forum wants/needs” as a means to frame an answer! My answers are my thoughts. They are an expression of my desire to participate and help, if help is what is entailed.

 

In 11 years I have found some a striking difference in members. There are those that insist that what they represent is what the forum ‘wants or needs’ and then there are those that attempt at least, to give the forum what it wants. It is in the spirit of ‘giving the forum what it asks for’ that I (typically) answer questions. As the forum represents a peer group, I will allow the forum membership to decide what value I have and where I reside in a ‘value hierarchy’ as a fellow member.

 

The forum itself (IMHO) is like a large organism. It moves and ebbs and flows with the members that are active within it. It depends not on a single member for motivation or direction, guidance and life. It has a leader (not me certainly) and he provides the majority of the threads to comment on, sets the rules and pays for the place to exist. Yet, he alone is not the forum. The forum would not exist, not as a forum with him alone!

 

The forum lives by the hand of the active member, new and old. Frankly, those who lurk are merely a number on a roster. The heart of the forum is the active member that devotes his or her time to taking the forum in the direction that interests him/her. As these forces compete, the makeup and the direction changes, hopefully enough to keep those active interested and spur on greater activity. Diversity then, not compliance to a dogma, is what I think is best for the forum. In that light, that is where I will take the forum with my involvement! I will do that whenever and wherever it suits me!

 

Telling the forum what it wants has never worked. Telling the forum what you want does not work either. Moving the forum in a way that interests others and motivates them to get involved, to participate, has been my tried and true way to influence the forum… My suggestion is this, if you wish to sway the forum and direct its wants, you do it with influential content. When you post and provide compelling content, you gain trust by the membership and establish value in yourself as a member. One becomes influential not by demanding it, but by proving it. One’s ideas don’t get traction by demanding that they be established or by proclaiming them. They get traction by member interest and involvement, by the proof that the ideas have merit.

 

Alas, perhaps I am a slow learner! For me it has taken 11 years here to understand what I know of the forum. In that time there has never been a shortage of those attempting to direct the forum. Frankly, I am one such person… yet I don’t do it with intent, but WITH CONTENT. Whether or not I am successful, an asset or liability to the forum will be for other members to decide. I suspect that is the way it has always been and that it will likely always be this way.

 

My suggestion is typically this, ’try what someone has PROVEN TO work, if you want a solution that works for you.’ Whether it is forum direction and shielding against new members’ paranoia, or running a wine cooler humidor, that is the best advice I can give!

 

-Piggy

[Smokeygun11]

22 hours ago, Fugu said:

haha, that's what I actually did, when saying:

time constants of different processes implying we have to deal with time-lags of different processes, leading to a combined timed reaction - i.e. hysteresis of the system.

And, as a side note, a non-marginal one that is: We should not forget (not sure how you did run your very experiment Ray, in an empty or filled humidor) - with our cigars, we have a natural passive "humidification" mass / means in addition to the technical system. Cigars will tend to balance and buffer a part of the observed variability. A brief, i.e. short-term dimple in rH is really uncritical in a full humidor, as - hysteresis in play, exactly! - tobacco manufactured into odd compact rolls... and rather tightly packed in boxes won't react as fast as the humidor atmosphere (and rH-gauges) will do. We have to keep in mind, we do measure physical conditions in a rapid-response atmosphere (=gas) NOT actual moisture of the slow-response tobacco (solid matter with a comparat. high thermal and hygroscopic inertia).

So, unless really extreme conditions would occur, I'd still be very relaxed if this was limited to a certain short-term humidity fluctuation. Much more critical would be longer periods of several days to weeks, as cigars would then be given a chance to follow the trend and would in turn permanently and repeatedly lose and gain moisture. Therefore, time constants (periodicity) of processes are indeed the critical part here, being as important as the actual extent (amplitude) of fluctuations! That being said, it's quite the opposite with temperature: Temp should be kept as constant as possible and, if at all, only be given a chance to slowly and gently change on a longer periodic!

 

Thanks for that explanation fugu. It makes sense that it would take cigars several days of a changed Rh to follow that day. A short change like mine most likely won't affect my stash. I will for the rest of the summer try to keep my house and the wineadors as consistent as possible 

[Lewinsky]

18 minutes ago, PigFish said:

I find it interesting that ‘lack of knowledge’ is a recurring theme of this thread. How knowledge is  postulated as being responsible for paranoia, where none existed before those who are without it, brought it up, causes me some confusion. I must say, I am at a bit of a loss as to how a direct answer (plus some friendly banter between mates) equates to paranoia amongst the members. I am not convinced that the membership is this fragile!

 

I have been a member here for 11 years. In those 11 years I still cannot claim to have a grasp of what the membership wants! Instead I rely on specific questions (mainly) and deal with membership in two parts; those that ask for specific data and those that don’t, yet might benefit from it. I don’t really judge what the membership wants, I respond to questions and focus more on what content is required to answer it and how “I” want to answer it. Beyond trying to courteous and lighthearted I cannot say that I tailor my responses to pander to anyone! Frankly, I would never even consider some wild speculation about “what the forum wants/needs” as a means to frame an answer! My answers are my thoughts. They are an expression of my desire to participate and help, if help is what is entailed.

 

In 11 years I have found some a striking difference in members. There are those that insist that what they represent is what the forum ‘wants or needs’ and then there are those that attempt at least, to give the forum what it wants. It is in the spirit of ‘giving the forum what it asks for’ that I (typically) answer questions. As the forum represents a peer group, I will allow the forum membership to decide what value I have and where I reside in a ‘value hierarchy’ as a fellow member.

 

The forum itself (IMHO) is like a large organism. It moves and ebbs and flows with the members that are active within it. It depends not on a single member for motivation or direction, guidance and life. It has a leader (not me certainly) and he provides the majority of the threads to comment on, sets the rules and pays for the place to exist. Yet, he alone is not the forum. The forum would not exist, not as a forum with him alone!

 

The forum lives by the hand of the active member, new and old. Frankly, those who lurk are merely a number on a roster. The heart of the forum is the active member that devotes his or her time to taking the forum in the direction that interests him/her. As these forces compete, the makeup and the direction changes, hopefully enough to keep those active interested and spur on greater activity. Diversity then, not compliance to a dogma, is what I think is best for the forum. In that light, that is where I will take the forum with my involvement! I will do that whenever and wherever it suits me!

 

Telling the forum what it wants has never worked. Telling the forum what you want does not work either. Moving the forum in a way that interests others and motivates them to get involved, to participate, has been my tried and true way to influence the forum… My suggestion is this, if you wish to sway the forum and direct its wants, you do it with influential content. When you post and provide compelling content, you gain trust by the membership and establish value in yourself as a member. One becomes influential not by demanding it, but by proving it. One’s ideas don’t get traction by demanding that they be established or by proclaiming them. They get traction by member interest and involvement, by the proof that the ideas have merit.

 

Alas, perhaps I am a slow learner! For me it has taken 11 years here to understand what I know of the forum. In that time there has never been a shortage of those attempting to direct the forum. Frankly, I am one such person… yet I don’t do it with intent, but WITH CONTENT. Whether or not I am successful, an asset or liability to the forum will be for other members to decide. I suspect that is the way it has always been and that it will likely always be this way.

 

My suggestion is typically this, ’try what someone has PROVEN TO work, if you want a solution that works for you.’ Whether it is forum direction and shielding against new members’ paranoia, or running a wine cooler humidor, that is the best advice I can give!

 

-Piggy

 

I've never suggested that knowledge causes people to feel paranoid. On the contrary, I also think that it's lack of knowledge that can cause paranoia about the condition of one's cigars (and maybe 'paranoia' is too strong a term - we're just talking about a fairly mild kind of worrying, after all).  But my view is that someone with limited knowledge about these things might feel worried when they're confronted with someone with superior knowledge (such as yourself), who might be taken to be suggesting that their setup is inadequate.  You have a setup that clearly seems to work well for you, and I have no doubt that you have also spent a lot of time providing data to support the conclusions that you reach. Does that mean that your setup is the best storage solution for every other cigar smoker? Perhaps, if by 'best' we mean the setup that comes closest to ideal conditions. But maybe not, if by 'best' we mean the solution that suits an individual forum member's budget, environment and degree of perfectionism. 

I'd also like to clarify that I'm not trying to take the forum in any particular direction or to do battle with you for the 'soul' of the forum! I certainly haven't suggested that your storage solutions are 'bad' or 'wrong', or that coolerdors with beads are in any way superior to active systems. I also don't claim to be an expert on these matters, but from the little I do know, I would conclude that active systems can come closer to 'ideal' conditions (i.e. perfect stability) than passive ones. My point is just that, although active systems may be objectively 'better' than passive ones (and are a necessity in some climates), passive systems are good enough for many of us. I say this from my own experience of using a passive system without having problems with mould, beetles, over-humidification, under-humidification or significant humidity and temperature swings. Of course, I recognise that others may have had completely different experiences with passive systems, and that pointing them in the direction of an active system is then the best course of action. And I respect the fact that you devote your time and effort to helping them with this. But in case any cigar newbies are reading this thread and feeling worried that their setups are inadequate, my advice would be not to worry, as long as your storage conditions are relatively stable and your cigars are smoking well. Cigaritis is an expensive enough condition to treat, without suffering from unnecessary upgradeitis as well! 

[Colt45]

Aside from advising members on forum standards, why any member would take it upon themselves to try and influence, sway, or direct the forum is beyond my grasp.

[LGC]

Brandon, if you are reading this you may just be right!

-the Pig

Paddle harder my friend... paddle harder!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

People tend to jump on forums and demand that others tell them if their $80 Cohibas are fake, why their cigars are moldy, why there's a big puddle in their Costco wine fridge, or what cigars to buy if they want to taste dark cherries, toffee, and pistachios. They then get pissed when they don't like the answers that don't jive with their UNscientific reasoning.

As I get older, I've learned to not try and change people(including wife, kids, parents, inlaws, etc.)... but to work AROUND them. LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Fugu]

4 hours ago, Lewinsky said:

my advice would be not to worry, as long as your storage conditions are relatively stable and your cigars are smoking well.

Piggy speaking?

Mate, as honourable as your undertaking may be, it seems you are insinuating things from this single thread, which are really not there. There has always been a very differentiated approach to such debates.

 

[Smokeygun11]

3 hours ago, Brandon said:

As I get older, I've learned to not try and change people(including wife, kids, parents, inlaws, etc.)... but to work AROUND them. LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hahaha lol spoken like someone who's been around a few times. Ain't this the truest advice I've heard all day 

[SloppyJ]

Hey guys thanks for taking the time to post and collect all of the data. It's very helpful. I'm a new member to the site and it's awesome to see this knowledge getting spread around. I myself can't speak for anyone else but having the data presented is extremely helpful to me as I like to know how things work and why. Like the OP, I bought a newair once I started getting serious about the hobby. I have 2lbs of beads in there and things are going well for me. I have had it running for a year now. 

 

As far as passive systems go, I have a buddy who strictly uses a cooler for his storage and he has no problems with it at all. It suits his needs and he has no desire for anything else. I live in a very hot and humid environment so I was looking for the temperature control since, as shown, it's linked to proper RH control. I'm not trying to speak for Lewinsky but I think that was the point he was trying to make. Everyone has different wants/expectations and there are different levels of humidity stabilization that everyone can achieve. Most people probably don't absolutely NEED an active humidification system. But some of us, like myself, are nerdy and like to tinker prefer it. 

[soutso]

I have run both passive and active systems. It was kind of like a stepping stone for me as I began with a desktop humidor and proceeded to a cooler so that it would fit my growing collection. Whilst I never methodically recorded my smoking experiences, I did notice that my smoking experience seemed to ebb and flow. It seemed to have form patches. I could switch between boxes and various brands and sized cigars and would find two and three week patches of positive experiences and then patches of negative ones. For the record when I say negative I refer to harshness, sour/bitter flavours, no flavour and plugged cigars. Why was this the case?

I researched why and read up on cigar maturation, aging, sick periods et al I read reviews to see what was supposedly poor in my collection and found negative and positive reviews on all of them! Every time I found an answer, I also found a counter argument. I bought aged stock, current stock in different shapes and sizes yet the experience was the same. Patches of positive experiences regardless of what I was smoking and patches of negative. (incidentally, the best advice I found was on this very forum where I discovered members who dared store their cigars from 60RH to 65RH as opposed to the 70/70 rule. Dry boxing also greatly improved my experiences.)

Still my collection was slave to form patches.

I studied several threads on this very site,  I studied RH and temperature. I learned about what happens to hygroscopic materials (which tobacco leaf is) under various changes to temp and RH. I placed a hygrometer in my room and was astounded at the changes in the environment (temp and RH) over a single day. I urge anyone to try it themselves. The best explanation as to why my smoking was so up and down was down to my storage. I can't fix poor construction, I can't fix poor blending or poor tobacco. I am steadfast in the belief that my experiences were being driven by my ambient conditions. I can't control the weather and I can't control the ambient in my house (other than running cooling and heating non stop which is not a cost effective option) The ambient conditions were the true set points of my cigars. The best chance I had of enjoying my cigars were down to luck!

Only an active storage system gives me the best chance store in an environment that produces cigars acclimatised to my taste. It was via this site that I discovered the greater smoking experiences that storing at 65RH produced. An active system gave me a shot at having this consistently and the chance to experiment, thus I now store at 60RH. (At 21 degrees Celsius)

If you store in a cooler and get great results in terms of consistent positive smoking experiences, then you're truly lucky and I hate you!!

[Lewinsky]

4 minutes ago, soutso said:

 

If you store in a cooler and get great results in terms of consistent positive smoking experiences, then you're truly lucky and I hate you!!

I'm afraid that you must hate me then!  Mind you, I wouldn't describe my smoking experiences as "consistently positive", but I do think they're as consistently positive as Cuban QC will allow (I do get the occasional wind tunnel or tight draw, as I expect that we all do). You're right that the ambient environment has a lot to do with it though - the temperature in my house is remarkably constant (in fact, the temperature in winter with the heating on is pretty much the same as in the summer with the heating off). If I lived in a climate that had extremes of heat and cold, I'm sure that I'd invest in an active system too. 

[Ethernut]

23 minutes ago, soutso said:

If you store in a cooler and get great results in terms of consistent positive smoking experiences, then you're truly lucky and I hate you!!

Haha! Totally appreciate the statement. Cooler here as well, but my basement never swings far in temp, usually around 60-65 degrees year around.

[Akela3rd]

When I started this whole CC malarky a few years ago I had a little fret about all the rh/temp thingy but once I understood the basics I stuck with a sealed 100 ltr box and a couple of cute desktops to hold 'em short-term for smoking. I do read these intense Piggy & Goo threads and do learn a lot from them but don't feel the need to delve too deeply into the mechanics of it. A few years ago I took the decision ( in life in general) to stop worrying about things and to think about things instead - there's a big difference - and this thread is one of those examples where I know I made the right choice.
I'm enjoying the debate, my cigars are fine and I'm in no rush to change what I do with 'em.
Crack on folks! Peace out.

Sent from my HTC One M8s using Tapatalk

[soutso]

41 minutes ago, Lewinsky said:

I'm afraid that you must hate me then!  Mind you, I wouldn't describe my smoking experiences as "consistently positive", but I do think they're as consistently positive as Cuban QC will allow (I do get the occasional wind tunnel or tight draw, as I expect that we all do). You're right that the ambient environment has a lot to do with it though - the temperature in my house is remarkably constant (in fact, the temperature in winter with the heating on is pretty much the same as in the summer with the heating off). If I lived in a climate that had extremes of heat and cold, I'm sure that I'd invest in an active system too.

 

 

I do hate you you bastard! Lol

I do suspect that the consistent temp at your place explains just why your cigars are generally acclimatised to your taste. It would be interesting if you recorded the temps every hour or so to see what you get. 

I did that but I did go through a phase of being nutty about it and enjoyed the passion of it etc

Smoke in good health my friend

Cheers

[Lewinsky]

1 minute ago, soutso said:

I do hate you you bastard! Lol

I do suspect that the consistent temp at your place explains just why your cigars are generally acclimatised to your taste. It would be interesting if you recorded the temps every hour or so to see what you get. 

I did that but I did go through a phase of being nutty about it and enjoyed the passion of it etc

Smoke in good health my friend

Cheers

I'd be happy to record the temperature every hour throughout the course of a day (I really don't think that it would change by more than a degree or so in a single day though). But I'm definitely not going to do that every day, because that would be enough to drive anyone insane! 

[Smokeygun11]

Funny thing is a few of my smokes recently have been going out on me on a frequent basis and I had to chuck them cuz it was a pain to keep them lit. Don't know if the winecooler has anything to do with that or if it's just the luck of the draw I guess