Need some temperature advice

[gojira]

I'm having a little storage problem and have some questions about this. I have a small humidor which holds around 120 singles and this has been sufficient at first but I have started to purchase quite a few boxes over the last few months. Some are to stock cigars I like in higher quantities and I would start to age others.

I live in an apartment without AC and haven't had a problem until now to stock my boxes. But summer will be here in a few months and I have looked around a little to purchase a wineador to be prepared for the hot weeks we have here in France during the summer. The problem is that I have two left hands and will not be able to build one myself and I've looked around a bit but only found US sellers for these and the shipping cost to Europe is extremely high (in most cases shipping is as high as retail for the wineador itself) and I'm a little worried that it would get damaged in the shipping process.

I have also looked at the only temp controlled humidor that I have found for sale here in France (or in Germany): Liebherr ZKES 453 which I find much to small and a little to expensive.

I have talked to a few people and all had a different opinion on this matter:

to purchase an old fridge and keep temp in it pretty high

to purchase an airtight steel box and to put a fan into it etc.

These options seem a little weird to me, so I thought to myself why not ask for some advice on here.

Here are just a few more details:

It can get pretty warm in my apartment in the summer, up to 27 celsius/80.6 fahrenheit during the hotter weeks.

I'm a little afraid of condensation building up in some of the available storage options.

I would need space for around 40 to 50 boxes.

You're advice would be greatly appreciated!

[gangstarrrrr]

I'm having a little storage problem and have some questions about this. I have a small humidor which holds around 120 singles and this has been sufficient at first but I have started to purchase quite a few boxes over the last few months. Some are to stock cigars I like in higher quantities and I would start to age others.

I live in an apartment without AC and haven't had a problem until now to stock my boxes. But summer will be here in a few months and I have looked around a little to purchase a wineador to be prepared for the hot weeks we have here in France during the summer. The problem is that I have two left hands and will not be able to build one myself and I've looked around a bit but only found US sellers for these and the shipping cost to Europe is extremely high (in most cases shipping is as high as retail for the wineador itself) and I'm a little worried that it would get damaged in the shipping process.

I have also looked at the only temp controlled humidor that I have found for sale here in France (or in Germany): Liebherr ZKES 453 which I find much to small and a little to expensive.

I have talked to a few people and all had a different opinion on this matter:

to purchase an old fridge and keep temp in it pretty high

to purchase an airtight steel box and to put a fan into it etc.

These options seem a little weird to me, so I thought to myself why not ask for some advice on here.

Here are just a few more details:

It can get pretty warm in my apartment in the summer, up to 27 celsius/80.6 fahrenheit during the hotter weeks.

I'm a little afraid of condensation building up in some of the available storage options.

I would need space for around 40 to 50 boxes.

You're advice would be greatly appreciated!

You should be able to buy a wine fridge in France?

Is it the drawers that you want?

[gojira]

You should be able to buy a wine fridge in France?

Is it the drawers that you want?

I fear that I'm lacking the skill to convert a wine fridge into a wineador

[gangstarrrrr]

I fear that I'm lacking the skill to convert a wine fridge into a wineador

I don't think there is much, if anything, by way of conversion. At its most basic, buy the right type, turn it on and stick the boxes in.

[gojira]

I don't think there is much, if anything, by way of conversion. At its most basic, buy the right type, turn it on and stick the boxes in.

If I go for a wine fridge it would definitely need some modifications done to it, such as getting wood and a fan in there and a humidity control device as well. And even then I would be worried about condensation building up in it during the hotter weeks of summer.

[Blazer]

What about looking for a used French made Eurocave wine cooler. I have seen a couple people convert those into large cigar humidors. Eurocave also makes a dedicated cigar wineador, but it's quite pricey for the storage capacity.

[mikemerry]

What about just getting a window a/c in the room where you store your cigars? Maybe bedroom so you and your smokes sleep better?

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[Corylax18]

If I go for a wine fridge it would definitely need some modifications done to it, such as getting wood and a fan in there and a humidity control device as well. And even then I would be worried about condensation building up in it during the hotter weeks of summer.

Most if not all wineadors come with a fan to circulate the cold air. Most people don't run additonal fans in the smaller units, but some do. Make sure you get a unit with Thermoelctric refrigeration rather than the compressor style. You will have FAR less issue with condensation with one of the thermoelectric units.

You can use the shelves that come with the winedor, they are typically wire mesh and will work fine, I know of a number of people here in the states that make the drawers and shelves for all types of units. A link to one is below. There has to be somebody over in Europe doing the same thing. Keep in mind, you will only need one or two shelves and maybe a drawer for singles. The boxes should take up most of the room!

http://wineadors.com/index.html

I can speak to the very high Quality of the products on the website, but he is not quick and shipping may still be prohibitive.

For humidity control you can use the same thing you are using in your current Desktop humi, or switch to something more sophisticated link the Cigar Oasis or another of the "Set and Forget" active systems.

[Blazer]

Most if not all wineadors come with a fan to circulate the cold air. Most people don't run additonal fans in the smaller units, but some do. Make sure you get a unit with Thermoelctric refrigeration rather than the compressor style. You will have FAR less issue with condensation with one of the thermoelectric units.

You can use the shelves that come with the winedor, they are typically wire mesh and will work fine, I know of a number of people here in the states that make the drawers and shelves for all types of units. A link to one is below. There has to be somebody over in Europe doing the same thing. Keep in mind, you will only need one or two shelves and maybe a drawer for singles. The boxes should take up most of the room!

http://wineadors.com/index.html

I can speak to the very high Quality of the products on the website, but he is not quick and shipping may still be prohibitive.

For humidity control you can use the same thing you are using in your current Desktop humi, or switch to something more sophisticated link the Cigar Oasis or another of the "Set and Forget" active systems.

If you are considering cedar shelves and drawers I would highly suggest using John Nelson ([email protected]). His prices are competitive, IMHO, he builds a higher quality product and his communication throughout the process blew his competition away.

[TheMonk]

Even though I currently don't have a temperature problem in the part of the house I keep my cigars, I'd also be interested in what would be recommended in terms of custom wineadors as far as Europe is concerned, as having one shipped from the US makes it forbiddingly expensive.

[gojira]

Most if not all wineadors come with a fan to circulate the cold air. Most people don't run additonal fans in the smaller units, but some do. Make sure you get a unit with Thermoelctric refrigeration rather than the compressor style. You will have FAR less issue with condensation with one of the thermoelectric units.

You can use the shelves that come with the winedor, they are typically wire mesh and will work fine, I know of a number of people here in the states that make the drawers and shelves for all types of units. A link to one is below. There has to be somebody over in Europe doing the same thing. Keep in mind, you will only need one or two shelves and maybe a drawer for singles. The boxes should take up most of the room!

http://wineadors.com/index.html

I can speak to the very high Quality of the products on the website, but he is not quick and shipping may still be prohibitive.

For humidity control you can use the same thing you are using in your current Desktop humi, or switch to something more sophisticated link the Cigar Oasis or another of the "Set and Forget" active systems.

Thank you for your advice.

The problem is that I have been unable to find someone who sells "ready to go" wineadors in Europe and it is extremely expensive to ship one from the US to Europe. I would try to transform a wine fridge into a wineador if I had the skills to do so but sadly I am lacking those.

Condensation is another thing that I'm a little afraid of since there are periods of the year where nobody is at home for up to 4 weeks which mean that a lot of condensation could build up during that period.

[gojira]

What about looking for a used French made Eurocave wine cooler. I have seen a couple people convert those into large cigar humidors. Eurocave also makes a dedicated cigar wineador, but it's quite pricey for the storage capacity.

I just looked at the cigar wineador they produce but it is a little to small for me and it's a whooping 4.2k. I also looked at the Liebherr temp controlled cigar cave but it's also to small.

[gojira]

What about just getting a window a/c in the room where you store your cigars? Maybe bedroom so you and your smokes sleep better?

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That's not really an option since I rent the place where I live and am not allowed to do so.

[Blazer]

Even though I currently don't have a temperature problem in the part of the house I keep my cigars, I'd also be interested in what would be recommended in terms of custom wineadors as far as Europe is concerned, as having one shipped from the US makes it forbiddingly expensive.

Have you tried Wayfair.com? I got my NewAir 281E on sale for $175USD, regular price was $259 so a nice savings right there that could be applied to EU shipping. When I received mine the unit had some cooling issues so they expedited shipping on a new one, no questions asked, and told me to keep or toss the old unit. Pretty great customer service.

[gojira]

Have you tried Wayfair.com? I got my NewAir 281E on sale for $175USD, regular price was $259 so a nice savings right there that could be applied to EU shipping. When I received mine the unit had some cooling issues so they expedited shipping on a new one, no questions asked, and told me to keep or toss the old unit. Pretty great customer service.

They only ship to within the US.

[Overproof]

Perhaps you could source an antique cabinet and find a local cabinet maker to source cedar to line, shelve and seal the inside.

Add something from Aristocrat system for your humidification and temp control.

http://www.aristocrathumidors.com/electronic.htm

Might work out cheaper. I'd love to do something like that down the track.

[Blazer]

They only ship to within the US.

I saw a dead page that showed they shipped ex-US, sorry. All of these coolers are being imported from China there has got be someone in the EU that can get them direct.

[PigFish]

Mate...

I have been building these systems based on different theories for over a decade now... I can assure you, I know what I am talking about.

I am not going to pick on members trying to help you, but I have read some pretty shoddy advice (above).

Frankly, if you don't have the budget, nor the skill, you are wasting your money! That is an honest answer!

High temperature (relatively) is not going to ruin your cigars. What it will do, is expose you to some bug risks, but you can freeze to help mitigate that problem. The rest is all in trying to keep a consistent PMC and how that relates to your smoking experience.

I understand the desire to mitigate a problem, before the problem manifests itself. But I figure you want facts so I will give them to you! Buy a cooler and keep it in the most stable cool place in the house. Live with the doubt and wait to see if the 'fear' is legitimate before you panic. Perhaps a better path might be to experience a problem (as long as it is minor) and deal with it when it happens, rather than attempting to preempt it, when you are not really in the position to do so.

Lastly... I firmly believe in wine cooler humidors. I sell kits to convert them... But whether on the site here, or via email, if you don't have the tools, skills and budget, you are (IMHO) wasting your time and money!

Now, there are other opinions. Some have suggested that you can buy a 'type' of wine cooler and simply stack it with beads. If you want to believe that, go right ahead and do it...! That does not work, not by my standard anyway. Opinions vary! I am but one voice, but if you want proof of what works and what does not work, you just let me know!

Best of luck on your project. -the Pig

[gojira]

Mate...

I have been building these systems based on different theories for over a decade now... I can assure you, I know what I am talking about.

I am not going to pick on members trying to help you, but I have read some pretty shoddy advice (above).

Frankly, if you don't have the budget, nor the skill, you are wasting your money! That is an honest answer!

High temperature (relatively) is not going to ruin your cigars. What it will do, is expose you to some bug risks, but you can freeze to help mitigate that problem. The rest is all in trying to keep a consistent PMC and how that relates to your smoking experience.

I understand the desire to mitigate a problem, before the problem manifests itself. But I figure you want facts so I will give them to you! Buy a cooler and keep it in the most stable cool place in the house. Live with the doubt and wait to see if the 'fear' is legitimate before you panic. Perhaps a better path might be to experience a problem (as long as it is minor) and deal with it when it happens, rather than attempting to preempt it, when you are not really in the position to do so.

Lastly... I firmly believe in wine cooler humidors. I sell kits to convert them... But whether on the site here, or via email, if you don't have the tools, skills and budget, you are (IMHO) wasting your time and money!

Now, there are other opinions. Some have suggested that you can buy a 'type' of wine cooler and simply stack it with beads. If you want to believe that, go right ahead and do it...! That does not work, not by my standard anyway. Opinions vary! I am but one voice, but if you want proof of what works and what does not work, you just let me know!

Best of luck on your project. -the Pig

Thank you for your input.

I definitely would like to purchase a wineador. The ones that are for sale on amazon don't really inspire me since they seem like pretty cheap conversions. Let's just say that my mind would be at peace once I have stored my cigar boxes in something humidity and temp controlled.

And I'm not very keen on just purchasing a wine cooler and putting beads in there.

One thing that's sure is that I haven't the skills to convert a wine cooler on my own. Budget shouldn't really be an issue. I am certainly not looking to spend over 4k on Eurocave wineador but there certainly is something in between the cheap wineadors one can find in the US and the Eurocave one. My problem is that I just haven't been able to find one yet.

I really would appreciate your advice on this. And if you are selling already converted wineadors I would certainly like to see what you have available (by PM).

Cheers,

Mike

[IcedCanuck]

I started my cigar journey while living in apartments. For over six years I have had various humidors and coolidors and never had a problem. I never ran AC in the summers and it was a little chilly in the winters. RH would fluctuate a little bit from outside temperatures and outdoor RH but it was always within a range I was comfortable with.

[PigFish]

I thought this was interesting as I pulled it off a data logger the other day.

All of my systems are fully active. While I do use some passive means as well, I drive them with airflow, and make even my desiccant pack, active.

Anyway, looking at the log I scratched my head and said, "Wow, what the hell happened here?"

This is a simple example of what happens to performance as one removes active process. What caused the rH line to take a turn for the worse? My humidifier started running out of water!

Passive elements cannot do what active elements can do! This can be proved with a number of experiments with a data logger. This one is accidental. It has been dry in the shop and I have ignored some routine maintenance.

Fun, fun, fun... -Piggy

[gojira]

I just purchased a Coleman 100Qt Xtreme hard cooler to stock my boxes until I find a Wineador here in Europe.

[PigFish]

I just purchased a Coleman 100Qt Xtreme hard cooler to stock my boxes until I find a Wineador here in Europe.

I know you PM'd me, not ignoring you, a little backed up on personal mail. Cheers! -R

[gojira]

I know you PM'd me, not ignoring you, a little backed up on personal mail. Cheers! -R

Take your time, I'm in no hurry at all!

[gojira]

I received my Coleman 100Qt Xtreme hard cooler. This thing is huge and there's a lot of space left in there, but I have a few more boxes on the way............