spicycorona Posted March 1, 2015 Posted March 1, 2015 As an aside to the CA NC vs CC thread To expand on my point and ask some questions: Just a quick search confirmed my thought that a leafy plant such as tobacco needs a ton of nitrogen to produce that kind of foliage. Grapes on the other hand I would guess need less nitrogen and more phosphorous or potassium to promote flowering. http://ces3.ca.uky.edu/owen/anr/Tobacco/tobacco%20patch%20fertilization.htm I have a hard time believing Cuba has enough naturally occurring Nitrogen ( cow manure, composted chicken or horse manure, compost etc.) to feed all of that tobacco. So the presumption that Nicaragua uses heavy chemical ferts and Cuba doesn't, well I would venture a guess that that is incorrect. I have a big interest in growing veggies. In my reading and personal experience of growing the same plants in the same spot, after time you need to replace the nutrients with something. It's easy to go all organic ferts in a small home garden. I don't see it being easy for Cuba, or any other large tobacco producing nation. Not to mention the susceptibility to diseases as the years pass with the same plants in the same location. It is not easy to stay organic in this area for even me. God knows what they spray on those plants. The slightest bacterial infection would spread quickly. Imagine what that would do to wrapper leaves? Same goes with pests. Lots of bugs like the taste of tobacco. So my question... What are they using in Cuba for fertilizers, pesticides, and fungicides? Does anyone really know?
Skyfall Posted March 1, 2015 Posted March 1, 2015 http://www.agrowingculture.org/2013/04/integrated-pest-management-and-biological-control-in-cuba-draft/
spicycorona Posted March 1, 2015 Author Posted March 1, 2015 Wow that was fast. Have to read that later.
PuroDan Posted March 2, 2015 Posted March 2, 2015 http://www.agrowingculture.org/2013/04/integrated-pest-management-and-biological-control-in-cuba-draft/Great article man
El Presidente Posted March 2, 2015 Posted March 2, 2015 http://www.agrowingculture.org/2013/04/integrated-pest-management-and-biological-control-in-cuba-draft/ Great stuff Dave
PuroDan Posted March 2, 2015 Posted March 2, 2015 As an aside to the CA NC vs CC thread To expand on my point and ask some questions: Just a quick search confirmed my thought that a leafy plant such as tobacco needs a ton of nitrogen to produce that kind of foliage. Grapes on the other hand I would guess need less nitrogen and more phosphorous or potassium to promote flowering. http://ces3.ca.uky.edu/owen/anr/Tobacco/tobacco%20patch%20fertilization.htm I have a hard time believing Cuba has enough naturally occurring Nitrogen ( cow manure, composted chicken or horse manure, compost etc.) to feed all of that tobacco. So the presumption that Nicaragua uses heavy chemical ferts and Cuba doesn't, well I would venture a guess that that is incorrect. I have a big interest in growing veggies. In my reading and personal experience of growing the same plants in the same spot, after time you need to replace the nutrients with something. It's easy to go all organic ferts in a small home garden. I don't see it being easy for Cuba, or any other large tobacco producing nation. Not to mention the susceptibility to diseases as the years pass with the same plants in the same location. It is not easy to stay organic in this area for even me. God knows what they spray on those plants. The slightest bacterial infection would spread quickly. Imagine what that would do to wrapper leaves? Same goes with pests. Lots of bugs like the taste of tobacco. So my question... What are they using in Cuba for fertilizers, pesticides, and fungicides? Does anyone really know? One thing I do know is the complete difference in ash color between a NC(white/solid) and a CC (Dark grey/ flakey) now just because its flakey doesn't mean the ash hangs on any less.
Garrettbuckeye Posted March 2, 2015 Posted March 2, 2015 Great read. I've always been curious as well.
PuroDan Posted March 2, 2015 Posted March 2, 2015 As an aside to the CA NC vs CC thread To expand on my point and ask some questions: Just a quick search confirmed my thought that a leafy plant such as tobacco needs a ton of nitrogen to produce that kind of foliage. Grapes on the other hand I would guess need less nitrogen and more phosphorous or potassium to promote flowering. http://ces3.ca.uky.edu/owen/anr/Tobacco/tobacco%20patch%20fertilization.htm I have a hard time believing Cuba has enough naturally occurring Nitrogen ( cow manure, composted chicken or horse manure, compost etc.) to feed all of that tobacco. So the presumption that Nicaragua uses heavy chemical ferts and Cuba doesn't, well I would venture a guess that that is incorrect. I have a big interest in growing veggies. In my reading and personal experience of growing the same plants in the same spot, after time you need to replace the nutrients with something. It's easy to go all organic ferts in a small home garden. I don't see it being easy for Cuba, or any other large tobacco producing nation. Not to mention the susceptibility to diseases as the years pass with the same plants in the same location. It is not easy to stay organic in this area for even me. God knows what they spray on those plants. The slightest bacterial infection would spread quickly. Imagine what that would do to wrapper leaves? Same goes with pests. Lots of bugs like the taste of tobacco. So my question... What are they using in Cuba for fertilizers, pesticides, and fungicides? Does anyone really know?
NJP Posted March 2, 2015 Posted March 2, 2015 On another post "Do you remember " Colt45 post a link to an interview with Hector, he explains that after the yearly floods the crops on those floods plains are good. Trace elements and nutrients would be not only be replenished yearly but also raised from depths under the sandy layers to resettle at useful levels to the plant. He also talks on variation of tobacco strains that were introduced to deal with the blue mould problem in 1981, these strains must have had some tinkering to the make up to cope with certain problems.
NJP Posted March 2, 2015 Posted March 2, 2015 Also crop rotation aids nutrient replacement and depending on what you plant controls weeds and parasites.
spicycorona Posted March 2, 2015 Author Posted March 2, 2015 Hate to be pessimistic (I am) but there is no way they solve all pest problems with wasps and marigolds. They help. Ladybugs have proven to be my most successful defense against aphids(who couldn't care less if marigolds are planted right there btw), so I am by no means saying that they couldn't be part of the solution. They're pretty amazing little bugs, and I've also done a lot of reading on parasitic wasps So what about fungus and bacteria? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tobacco_diseases Any optimists out there that are sure that they are using copper sulfate, sulfur and resistant strains to combat that list of diseases?
spicycorona Posted March 2, 2015 Author Posted March 2, 2015 I also realize that some of you may think that comparing such a huge operation to back yard gardening is trivial. But it's the opposite in my mind. Wouldn't these issues be magnified and that much more difficult to control?
PapaDisco Posted March 2, 2015 Posted March 2, 2015 I recall reading somewhere that strains of cigar tobacco are also being constantly developed and that about every 5(?) years a new strain is rolled out with difference pest resistance properties. I don't recall where that article came from though. The reason behind it all was less about altruistic farming practices and more about the marketing dynamics: people didn't want to smoke stuff that had been sprayed, etc.
El Presidente Posted March 2, 2015 Posted March 2, 2015 I recall reading somewhere that strains of cigar tobacco are also being constantly developed and that about every 5(?) years a new strain is rolled out with difference pest resistance properties. I don't recall where that article came from though. The reason behind it all was less about altruistic farming practices and more about the marketing dynamics: people didn't want to smoke stuff that had been sprayed, etc. They roll in a new strain regularly and exit an existing strain once it reaches 7 years (approx) of use. For every Prieto/Alejandro operation there are far more that resemble "back yard" farmers.
leftimatic Posted March 2, 2015 Posted March 2, 2015 http://www.agrowingculture.org/2013/04/integrated-pest-management-and-biological-control-in-cuba-draft/ I remember reading an article about this. Where the loss of access to petroleum caused Cuba to do a huge organic and companion farming swap over. It said it put Cuba in the leading edge of modern organic farming. Now I'm relatively new to CCs but all this took place during the years that everyone is complaining about the quality of cigars coming out of Cuba. "The Special Period" now I can't say, I wasn't there but perhaps maybe the farmers are just now hitting their stride and that's why there are so many decent to good quality things coming out. Maybe the best is yet to come. You can shoot the theory down and punch it full of holes if it needs to be done. Like I said it's just little old me thinking aloud.
oliverdst Posted March 2, 2015 Posted March 2, 2015 Curious to see that in a way USA embargo led to better tobacco in Cuba.
spicycorona Posted March 2, 2015 Author Posted March 2, 2015 They roll in a new strain regularly and exit an existing strain once it reaches 7 years (approx) of use. For every Prieto/Alejandro operation there are far more that resemble "back yard" farmers. I wondered that. If most were small time operations. That would definitely answer some questions.
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