NFL PLAYOFFS

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The "more probable than not" and "preponderance of evidence" standards are usually used in civil cases, and are what the NFL has adopted as their standards for disciplinary matters. That's why it's written that way. Wells explained further on his call yesterday that he felt like his conclusions would have been upheld by a judge or jury in civil court. Obviously criminal standards are different, but in a criminal case, Brady wouldn't have had the option to hide his phone records.

It's interesting to me that Brady's defenders keep touting circumstantial evidence, like circumstantial evidence doesn't count for anything. Circumstantial evidence is used to convict people in criminal court everyday, and almost always decides civil cases. In most cases, there isn't direct or "hard" evidence available, and circumstantial evidence is all there is. It can certainly prove someone's guilt beyond reasonable doubt, or liability via preponderance of evidence. In this case, the circumstantial evidence against Brady is pretty damning. I'm admittedly biased against Brady and New England, but I don't see how anyone could read the Wells report and think Brady is innocent, despite the lack of a smoking gun.

Nowhere is there any indication that Brady said, or told them to make the balls less than 12.5 psi period. How this for a circumstance.

In the Jets game before the Colts game the refs actually over inflated the balls. A few were 16psi ( max is suppose to be 13.5) Brady was pissed. He tells the ball handlers F the refs, you know I like my ball on the low side whatever you f-heads do make sure my balls are the way I like them. The ball handlers prior to the kickoff in the colts game scramble into the men's room stick a needle in the balls and release air. No gauge, just by feel, get them to where they think is good and then hand them in.

It's possible right, probably even probable.

[wabashcr]

Nowhere is there any indication that Brady said, or told them to make the balls less than 12.5 psi period. How this for a circumstance.

In the Jets game before the Colts game the refs actually over inflated the balls. A few were 16psi ( max is suppose to be 13.5) Brady was pissed. He tells the ball handlers F the refs, you know I like my ball on the low side whatever you f-heads do make sure my balls are the way I like them. The ball handlers prior to the kickoff in the colts game scramble into the men's room stick a needle in the balls and release air. No gauge, just by feel, get them to where they think is good and then hand them in.

It's possible right, probably even probable.

You're welcome to draw your own conclusions, but if anything even remotely close to that scenario really happened, why haven't the Patriots said so? Why didn't Brady say so? It still doesn't explain all the back and forth contained in the text messages, which clearly suggest something illicit, and Brady's involvement. Occam's razor would seem to indicate Brady is either guilty, or better have a good story, and the ability to back it up.

[Ken Gargett]

BTW his attorney's advised him not to turn over the phone.

As far as "other" evidence that people seemed to think was withheld from the report that Vincent says proves Brady knew, people are misinterpreting what he is saying. There is not other evidence. The evidence he is referring to are the text messages between the 2 equipment men that was released and everybody saw on TV. Vincent is stating that THOSE text messages, definitively in his mind, indicate Brady was aware. Not sure I see how he comes to that conclusion.

Anyway it is what it is the were doing something they shouldn't have been and got caught. Doesn't take away the championships, unless of course you want to take away Denver's 2 super bowls for cheating by hiding salary so they could cheat the salary cap keep a couple of their stars on the team. Was that a bit of an advantage hmmmmm yep. Or the 49'er's who illegally used stickum on their hands, hmmmmm sort of like a deflated ball advantage. Or Pittsburg for having about 50% of their team on steroids. Or Atlanta and Indy for piping in crowd noise....on and on and on.

i'm not certain that the best defence is pointing out others also cheated.

and agree with W re circumstantial evidence. used every day.

[Quint]

i'm not certain that the best defence is pointing out others also cheated.

and agree with W re circumstantial evidence. used every day.

Ken pointing out others transgressions was in reference to your statement about stripping them of the championships. They would have to do that for a handful of teams if that precedent is set.

Personally I think it's a shame it's come to this. I have no idea of Brady's guilt or innocence or do I care much. As a Patriots fan do I wish it never happened, yes. I'm also a Brady fan I've watch every press conference and interview that has been aired in this area and the guy has been nothing but class, which is hard to find in the world of professional sports. When it's all said and done we'll know the answer.

Having said that they did come down hard on him and the team, but probably not hard enough for all the haters. But that's the great thing about sports rivalries as long as it's kept in prospective. Personally I hope it stays at 4 games I want to see how the team does with the backup. It may be a preview of things to come for us patriots fans.

[Ken Gargett]

Ken pointing out others transgressions was in reference to your statement about stripping them of the championships. They would have to do that for a handful of teams if that precedent is set.

Personally I think it's a shame it's come to this. I have no idea of Brady's guilt or innocence or do I care much. As a Patriots fan do I wish it never happened, yes. I'm also a Brady fan I've watch every press conference and interview that has been aired in this area and the guy has been nothing but class, which is hard to find in the world of professional sports. When it's all said and done we'll know the answer.

Having said that they did come down hard on him and the team, but probably not hard enough for all the haters. But that's the great thing about sports rivalries as long as it's kept in prospective. Personally I hope it stays at 4 games I want to see how the team does with the backup. It may be a preview of things to come for us patriots fans.

i'm still hoping it goes down to three so he can play the cowgirls.

over here, hard to really know but i'd like to see more evidence.

agree with the rest, except i would not agree your thoughts on 'precedent'. precedent is for the future, not the past. i understand you mean that the NFL set the precedent of not doing this in the past. doesn't mean they can't do it for the future. it is simply setting up a new precedent.

that said,clearly they will not take away the superbowl win but if they had, for argument, decided to do so, i see no problem with others transgressing in the past. they are making a statement for the future. and present. past irrelevant. if you look to law, sure, there are endless precedents but they are being modifiied, even broken, all the time. the laws and punishments of 20 years ago very different to today, in many cases.

a slightly analogous situation here is where a rugby league club breached the salary cap. others had done it in the past but the administrators had had enough and stripped the premierships the club won when they transgressed. didn't matter what others had done in the past. the NFL could easily go that way and it would send a statement for the future. but they won't here and on the evidence to date, nor should they.

sadly, i think i'm off air for the next five days so this is my last comment for a bit.