Data Logging

[partriar]

Hey guys,

I see many guys on here data logging their humidors. I am going to build a Vault such as Dabose has done. I managed to come into a fridge for nothing so thought what the hell may as well.

I want to do a bit of data logging in each of the air tight containers just so i have a good idea of what is going on.

Im looking for a logger that has multiple wireless sensors and is reasonably accurate. I have found some on the internet but they have a +/- or 5% RH, that seems pretty pointless being so inaccurate. I dont need it down to 100 decimals points or anything but a bit better than that.

Any advice or pointers?

Thanks everyone

[AlohaStyle]

There was just a thread about this a couple weeks ago where people gave some suggestions. With some of those suggestions (including mine) you can calibrate the hygrometer readout to make them show the accurate Rh.

[partriar]

Oh ok, sorry for the repeat post. I did go looking, guess i must be blind...

[partriar]

Just found that post you where refering to.

My question is aimed more towards a wireless data logging system instead of just a bunch of hydrometers.

[Pedro2486]

Just found that post you where refering to.

My question is aimed more towards a wireless data logging system instead of just a bunch of hydrometers.

There's a ok instructible on building a raspberry Pi humidity monitor. I've been meaning to get one built but haven't had time with moving house recently.

In the instructible the device posts a feed on Twitter but it would be fairly simple to change the code to send data to a port/file.

[partriar]

There's a ok instructible on building a raspberry Pi humidity monitor. I've been meaning to get one built but haven't had time with moving house recently.

In the instructible the device posts a feed on Twitter but it would be fairly simple to change the code to send data to a port/file.

Yeh I have read up a bit on Pi and Adurino boards. Still know nothing about it really. In the system I'm thinking of building, I will have a bunch of different air tight containers. Would it be possible to build a system where-by I could put a RH sensor in each container, and that feed be sent to a central data logging PC or Pi or Adurino? So having the ability to have a live stream of data of each and every container?

[Pedro2486]

Yeh I have read up a bit on Pi and Adurino boards. Still know nothing about it really. In the system I'm thinking of building, I will have a bunch of different air tight containers. Would it be possible to build a system where-by I could put a RH sensor in each container, and that feed be sent to a central data logging PC or Pi or Adurino? So having the ability to have a live stream of data of each and every container?

Yeah I'm sure it is. Wireless will be trickier though.

1- your gonna have to rely on batteries and if u are gonna run a power lead you may as well run data as well

2- with wireless a proprietary controller would probably be better cause with DIY you're gonna be relying on Bluetooth (only one sensor per Bluetooth module) or wifi (which is going to make having a controller redundant as you may as well just link them all to a PC)

For a cost effective solution I might suggest sacrificing accuracy a little, but I'm no Piggy/expert

Good luck mate

[PigFish]

Good sensors, ones that are accurate cost money… If you are going to spend money on a good sensor, you might as well buy one attached to a data logger.

I use some pretty decent data loggers. They are not perfect and they have their share of problems. I have had numerous technical problems with the company that makes mine and as a result of mixed feelings about the company, I don't endorse what I use. I am not going to originate business for a company that does not really earn mine!

What I find important in a data logger is the ability to run a controller and a data logger off a single sensor. This allows me to correlate controls to conditions and look at controller responses. I use many types of data loggers. I must monitor 'states' of electrical appliances and temperatures and rH all over a humidor to test its function. I have to correlate that data to make it useful to me. I often correlate 3 or 4 temperature senders in a chain to follow the path of heat (cool) though a project to see what it is doing and why. Again, all of this data must be compiled and chronologically aligned.

Data loggers are must for one serious about humidor control but they cost money. I have recommended the little Lascar loggers to many members here as they are reliable and reasonably accurate.

Accuracy begins to become an expensive endeavor. One of these days I am going to buy an actual chilled mirror hygrometer but they run 15K plus, typically. You have to calibrate a lot of sensors to rationalize that kind of bread! Frankly accuracy is a big gun game! It gets silly, stupid expensive pretty quick and in actuality what you really want is not accurately stored cigars, but good tasting precisely stored ones. This argument is what separates theory from pragmatics, best practices from hype and BS.

Accuracy is actually of lesser importance than control and repeatability. This is where the theories of passive systems and active systems begin to show their differences. While there are several people around the site that use and like their macro-temp, micro-rH control systems, they have shortcomings to a singular controlled commensurate system.

If you get this type of system just right, well it can represent the ultimate in stability. But it depends on the ability to guess or, monitor, test, adjust, monitor, test, adjust… ad infinitum to maintain. If this is what you want to do to perfect your environment then that is up to you! If you get it right and get it to stay there, it is arguably the most stable system available… If, if, if…. that is the problem.

Stability is sacrificed whenever you place an energized heat sink in with your cigars. That would be the flaw in my systems as a comparison. You have to depend on your automated equipment and the ability to control the wavelength and aptitude of change of parameters to a size that allows you to exploit the hysteresis of tobacco. If you don't allow a trend of either hydration or dehydration, you find stability… I choose low amplitude automated and controlled instability to that of manually maintained and uncontrolled (passive controlled) greater stability. It is a life choice. -LOL

If you are going to build one of these vault type systems in comparison to a commensurate controlled system, you should build really big… You should use the least vessels or formal humidors inside the temp controlled macro climate to limit your maintenance to the fewest vessels. That is my opinion, but I am not the expert on such storage.

For the peer proven approach you should see Dennis or David and emulate what they are doing. They are very happy with their results via this approach and you should likely emulate their designs to get their results.

Generally each option you add to a sensor costs money. If the accurate sensor is the most expensive part, then adding the wireless and other reporting means just makes them more expensive. In your search look of sensors that can be replaced! Sensors creep and if accuracy is what you want, you should not keep a sensor more than 2 years. This is not my opinion, this is a fact about sensors! Calibration, while handy is pretty meaningless. My controllers use offset calibration and I advertise it, it is good to have but unless you, yourself have a nice chilled mirror sensor calibration machine, you are just guessing. You will more than likely tweak your sensor worse rather than better. It is just better to buy a new sensor and start from scratch.

It is the sensor that is calibrated at the factory. The instrument itself is just a precision volt/ammeter that reads current or differential voltage off the sensor.

Cheers! -Piggy

[CUBANO]

I use a Lascar Data Logger to monitor the variation of the Temp and Humidity in my humidor.

[partriar]

Thanks everyone for your feedback.

To be honest i think i got a bit carried away with the whole thing. While it would be cool to build a PC that monitor's each container in real time and log's it, i think its a bit of overkill.

The reason im heading down this route, (fridge with air tight container's with either boveda packs or beads) is simply because i ended up with a free fridge and thought what the hell may as well until such time as i can afford one of Piggy's amazing systems. I think it would be made redundant if i then when and build a $1k+ PC system to monitor and log the data.

I think ill just grab a USB data logger and move it between the containers, just for peace of mind and an understanding of what is going on in there.

By using Boveda packs at a constant temperature the humidity shouldnt move around much. I emphasis's SHOULDNT, so we will have to log it and see what goes on.

Thanks again everyone

[Pedro2486]

Thanks everyone for your feedback.

To be honest i think i got a bit carried away with the whole thing. While it would be cool to build a PC that monitor's each container in real time and log's it, i think its a bit of overkill.

The reason im heading down this route, (fridge with air tight container's with either boveda packs or beads) is simply because i ended up with a free fridge and thought what the hell may as well until such time as i can afford one of Piggy's amazing systems. I think it would be made redundant if i then when and build a $1k+ PC system to monitor and log the data.

I think ill just grab a USB data logger and move it between the containers, just for peace of mind and an understanding of what is going on in there.

By using Boveda packs at a constant temperature the humidity shouldnt move around much. I emphasis's SHOULDNT, so we will have to log it and see what goes on.

Thanks again everyone

Yep. I'm basically logging data using clear containers and a Mk. 1 eyeball with a pen and paper. The DIY electronics just appeal to me as a geek

I use 62rh bovedas and think they work well enough, especially in a non-porous container. They are a bit reactive to varying temps though, so I would suggest finding a temp you can keep constant and trying a few different rH boveda sachets to find the humidity you like to smoke at (for example, my 62rh sachets at 17 deg C will sit steady at 61, but at 25 deg C they go up a bit)

[partriar]

Haha yeh couldn't agree more. I spent a lot of hours working out how to build a PC to just minister my humidor. Running Linux and either PI or Adurino built sensors.

I'd be very interested in seeing some pics of your set up.

I'm going to run a digital brewers thermostat. (Have a spare one) should keep the fridge 16-17 pretty well. Then just a bunch of 7L of those blue lock containers you get from Coles or woolies with a large Boveda pack and hydrometer in each. Interesting what you say about the packs... I'll be getting 62's now.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Pedro2486]

Haha yeh couldn't agree more. I spent a lot of hours working out how to build a PC to just minister my humidor. Running Linux and either PI or Adurino built sensors.

I'd be very interested in seeing some pics of your set up.

I'm going to run a digital brewers thermostat. (Have a spare one) should keep the fridge 16-17 pretty well. Then just a bunch of 7L of those blue lock containers you get from Coles or woolies with a large Boveda pack and hydrometer in each. Interesting what you say about the packs... I'll be getting 62's now.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

ATM the blue 7L Systema containers are what I'm using too. I think they're pretty good but would like them to be a little taller for some cabs. I'm away for work all week but I'll send up some good pics when I'm back.

Basically the setup is the same as you mention, 3-4 boveda sachets (because the more the merrier) and a Xicar hygrometer in each. I have a nice little cabinet that fits about 8 of the containers so it looks a bit prettier but leave them in the plastic boxes as it's easier to keep the rH steady and also because you can get away with less bovedas