Tapped (keg) beer gas question...

[Susanne]

I have a question that has been bugging me for a while...

Usually, when you supply gas to a beer keg to draw it, people use CO2. The exception is some stouts, in which people use Nitrogen. (or a hand pump using air, but that will kill a keg of beer in 3 days - don't ask how I know!!) My question is this...

We are having a neighborhood get-together next weekend. I have on order a keg of IPA. What would the difference be should I use Nitrogen instead of CO2? And has anyone ever played with this, trying different gas combinations, such as Argon, Helium, etc? (We have a welding supplier who also does beverage gasses and said he could make any combination I decided on, as long as I paid for it!)

Comments? Considerations? Concerns? Has anyone played with this and if so, what were your results?

(And no, I'm not thinking of using Propane or Acetylene to charge the tanks!!)

Thanks!!

[Habana Mike]

I have a question that has been bugging me for a while...

Usually, when you supply gas to a beer keg to draw it, people use CO2. The exception is some stouts, in which people use Nitrogen. (or a hand pump using air, but that will kill a keg of beer in 3 days - don't ask how I know!!) My question is this...

We are having a neighborhood get-together next weekend. I have on order a keg of IPA. What would the difference be should I use Nitrogen instead of CO2? And has anyone ever played with this, trying different gas combinations, such as Argon, Helium, etc? (We have a welding supplier who also does beverage gasses and said he could make any combination I decided on, as long as I paid for it!)

Comments? Considerations? Concerns? Has anyone played with this and if so, what were your results?

(And no, I'm not thinking of using Propane or Acetylene to charge the tanks!!)

Thanks!!

Haven't done nor heard of using other gases. One thing to keep in mind is the gas is absorbed by the beer (carbonation) so you could end up with unusual flavors if the gas has a taste....

I do wonder if your voice would squeak after drinking some helium-charged brew.

[Susanne]

Thanks, Mike!

I've been reading up on this - it's like learning Distillation, lots of opinion, not much fact! (Kind of like "which cigar is better?" questions!)... We were laughing about charging it with Acetylene around the shop - it would taste nasty horrible, but flaming beer? (Of course, that's until the keg is sufficiently empty, where at which time i becomes a 60 liter grenade!!)...

I may have to play with this in the future and see what I can find out, but the consensus on line is, since beer is carbonated (naturally or artificially) with CO2, that's the gas you want to replace it with. (Guiness and Murphys are the exception, as they're a N2/CO2 mix)

The thought of Helium intriuges me, tho... Light beer, anyone? --lol-- It is odorless, flavorless, non-inflammable, and non-toxic.

Susanne

[bradbrennan]

Nice to see a topic from you! I have a cousin in Wyoming with a pretty serious passion for home brewing, he'd probably have some engineered facts for you, brennanbreweries.com

[Fuzz]

Whatever, just don't use methane.

[polarbear]

While I know little to nothing about brewing beer, I do have some experence in gas absorbsion from my diving days.

Nitrogen in absorbed into human tissue faster than any other gas, hence the reason for the bends

Helium is absorbed slower, to a point where it can be used as a diluent gas in order to lower a breathing mix N2 and O2 concetrations to make them safe to breathe under extreme pressure.

Now, I imagine there may be a connection between CO2 absorbtion into a liquid and the reason it is used in beer.

If the price of the gas in question was the main issue then Nitrogen would be far cheaper and easier to obtain the CO2 ever was, so it may mean CO2 was chosen for a reason.

As stouts and porters are a differnt kettle of fish compared to IPAs, Ales and Lagers then perhaps there is a reason the charging gas is different also.

As I said, I'm not a brewers A$$hole but there may be more chemistry behind the choice of gas than people think.

Also, stay away from helium. Its hard to get and Wallet Killing-ly Expensive

Argon could be fun though as its known to have a narcotic affect on the human body when inhaled...

[Habana Mike]

Now, I imagine there may be a connection between CO2 absorbtion into a liquid and the reason it is used in beer.

If the price of the gas in question was the main issue then Nitrogen would be far cheaper and easier to obtain the CO2 ever was, so it may mean CO2 was chosen for a reason.

C02 naturally occurs as part of the fermentation process. That's most likely the primary reason C02 gas is used to keep it carbonated and fresh as the container is depleted.

[wookiemofo]

Forgive me if this was answered. Stouts are served using a beer gas mix, it's 70% nitrogen 30% CO2. It required a specialized regulator and the beer gas allows the beer to be served at a much higher PSI. The reason for this is that the beer is pushed through a nitrous spout that contains a small disc with 5 extremely small holes. Pushing the beer through this knocks out some co2 (creates the cascading effect) and creates smaller carbonation bubbles (creates the smooth mouth feel)

IPAs can absolutely be poured this way and often bring out the floral notes of the hops. Hazed and confused is almost always on nitrous.

[wookiemofo]

C02 naturally occurs as part of the fermentation process. That's most likely the primary reason C02 gas is used to keep it carbonated and fresh as the container is depleted.

You are correct, the longer the beer sits, the more of the gas it will absorb, beer is carbonated via co2 therefore it is served with co2.

[paulF]

Using Nitrogen will also produce a more smooth creamy foam due it being less soluble in water than Co2 meaning nitrogen bubbles are slower to lose their gases than Co2 bubbles and hence the Nitrogen foam will reside and persist longer.

Also, i think using Nitrogen is less likely to interfere with the flavour than Co2 since Co2 would turn into carbonic acid on the surface of the tongue and give that sort of burning sensation...

Would be great if you can try serving with both gases and compare the results!

[...]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I also understand different gases will form different sizes of bubbles as they outgass from a liquid, thus having an impact on the overall experience...

[Maplepie]

As a chem proctor, this thread pains me..

Will respond when I'm home on the computer

Sent by the Enigma on BlackBerry.