Cigar aging experiment

[dB69]

Here's shortly how I see the benefits of this experiment:

By aging cigars artificially, it could possibly be more sure whether a particular box of cigars is good for aging or not. The result will not be exactly the same like when aged by time, but the direction or hint of what the cigars are going to be in the future might get clearer.

Let's say, if I buy a box and wait ten years and the result is pure crap. I get mad.

If I buy a box and age two cigars artificially and after half a year I find that the rest of the cigars are going to be crap if aged. I would be quite happy that I didn't waste ten years with that particular box.

Personally I think that heat and/or excess moisture could be the best way to do artificial aging. I'm not sure about that though.

Keep on going Tempbond!

[mdzotti78]

Interesting experiment you've got going. I'm very excited to see the results. One question though, once the cigars are out of the freezer how long will it be before you smoke them? 2 weeks, 4 weeks? How long do you expect for them to be fully thawed out?

[Smallclub]

Cigars 5-6 : MSG added

As a side note, if you want to experiment the (now famous) 6th taste, the umami, I recommend trying an aged Sancho Panza Bachilleres.

The one I'm smoking now is from 1998, and it's like smoking a bretzel soaked in soy sauce!

[matt14]

Wasnt Rob planning on doing a review with frozen against un frozen not so long ago? Did I miss that or did it not happen?

[MrGlass]

Just slap a Mythbusters logo on this whole thing and you'll be fine.

There are a fair few of us here interested in the perceived results. I'm not going to do this to any of my sticks, but that doesn't stop me from wanting to know how this pans out regardless.

Nick.

[tempbond]

Here's shortly how I see the benefits of this experiment:

By aging cigars artificially, it could possibly be more sure whether a particular box of cigars is good for aging or not. The result will not be exactly the same like when aged by time, but the direction or hint of what the cigars are going to be in the future might get clearer.

Let's say, if I buy a box and wait ten years and the result is pure crap. I get mad.

If I buy a box and age two cigars artificially and after half a year I find that the rest of the cigars are going to be crap if aged. I would be quite happy that I didn't waste ten years with that particular box.

Personally I think that heat and/or excess moisture could be the best way to do artificial aging. I'm not sure about that though.

Keep on going Tempbond!

Didn't think of that, but it's a great idea! Thank you

[Guest rob]

E621 has been linked to bowel and other cancers.... I hope combusting it doesnt end up killing you... as no doubt someone will link it to cigars instead

[Van55]

While we are all in on the subject of control I have to play devils advocate with the bunch of you.

his evedence is as good as yours or mine! None of us, can prove ****, -Piggy

I couldn't agree more.

Many, if not all, of us are guilty of making unprovable statements about our subjective experiences with cigar smoking. And, of course, that includes good friend Piggy.

I reiterate that taste is immeasurable, incalculable and individual. Accordingly, generalized statements about the effects of aging, the meaning (if any) of plume, the proper temperature and RH of storage, the sick period,etc. etc. perhaps at best express an informed consensus. But in far too many cases, in my opinion, such statements are simply one person's unsubstantiated observations that have become "truths" through sheer repetition and acceptance by the ignorant masses hungry for "information."

We all need to keep keenly in mind that we are each the only experts on our own taste experiences. Everything else is pretty much nonsense.

[PAL]

Having read, with interest, this thread I recalled that I have several quality smokes in my freezer. They have been there more than six months, possibly a year. They were put-away in good condition. Pulled a Monte #2 out and smoked it got a few more of other CC brands. Yes, right out of the freezer. It smoked great and the flavors, which I seldom experience in an vibrant sort of way, were there like crazy. Best #2 I can recall smoking and I have been smoking them for 15 years.

Immediately loaded some 'troubled' Partagas 898s I got a few weeks ago (way too young to smoke, thought I claim no real expertise) into the freezer in a ziploc (as was the #2 I mentioned).

Who knows, but maybe this freezer thing works!

My plan now is to put away about 20 smokes for some months, in the freezer, and keep others, from the same boxes in my 70% humidor and then have a smoke off to see how they compare. A peer reviewed, double-blind placebo controlled experiment to disprove the null-hypothesis this will not be. It will be good fun and, who knows, maybe we could be onto something....

Please share your thoughts and experiences along these lines. So far I am one-for-one on a sample of one. Sure was a great smoke! Hope this method produces more positive smoking experience like the one I had today.

PAL

[PAL]

can't wait to see the results. I once froze a box of hoyo churchill's because i thought they had beetles , they didn't, and i forgot them for about 1 1/2 months . after i thawed & slowly brought them back they were great. I had myself convinced it was because they had been frozen,butt I have never had the nads to try it again

Had a Monte #2 in the freezer for months, six or maybe 12 and smoked it today. It was the best #2 I have had in 15 years of smoking them.....

am now experimenting with more. Just to see. Not much to lose and lots of happy smoking to gain..... nothing venture, nothing gained.

PAL

[Ginseng]

We all need to keep keenly in mind that we are each the only experts on our own taste experiences.

Point of clarification, Van. We can only become experts, even in regard to our own experiences, through mindful exercise of that activity.

Wilkey

[winelover]

Good luck to the OP on his experiment.

Shame about all of the overly sensitive back and forth handbags at dawn posts on this thread that have certainly not showered all contributors with glory. When I joined 5 years ago or so (does this make me a FOG!!)and until recently there was a consistently friendly and fraternal atmosphere and some of the replies to this thread have made me wonder if this is any longer the case. As Rob says "no wankers".

[tempbond]

Hello again everyone !

So it will be a month tomorrow since I started this thing. I plan on starting to smoke my test cigars this weekend during a meet of our Montreal Cigar Club (MCC). I'll start with a control cigar to remind me what a Crema tastes like.

I plan to then smoke the "modified" cigars knowing which is which, one at a time during the next few days after that.

For the second batch of cigars (1 control, 3 modified), like I said before, I plan to ask my wife to remove the numbered bands and reassign a new number to each cigar, without her knowing which number is which cigar, so that nothing can influence her choice of numbers and therefore my interpretation of her decision. She will not know what I am smoking nor will I.

I will post my results as soon as I have smoked everything.

Interestingly, the Prez has started a similar experiment, but without participating himself in it :

Who can partake in a little Freezing Test?

[tempbond]

Temp, if your wife doesn't know and you don't know which cigar is which, how are you gonna figure it out in the end?

I will have her write down the number of the cigar and her new number or letter beside it, but I will not tell her before hand what number corresponds to which aging treatment if any.

For example, is she assings the letter C to my #3 cigar, when I'll smoke her C cigar, I'll be smoking a frozen one without me or her knowing it. I'll just write down my impressions of C and after having smoked all of them, I'll look at what she wrote down to find out which cigar was which.

[PAL]

eagerly awaiting the test results.... I have to wait a few weeks before my taste testing. You have started a line of discussion that has sparked my imagination. Thank you for that. By the way, here is an off-shoot discussion:

If freezing for long-term does not hurt the cigar and might even help aging it, then is a freezer not the ideal storage for cigars? No humidity or temperature to worry about! Also freezers are quite a bit cheaper than humidors to buy.

An interesting thought, if it works OK.

PAL

[PAL]

Hello again everyone !

So it will be a month tomorrow since I started this thing. I plan on starting to smoke my test cigars this weekend during a meet of our Montreal Cigar Club (MCC). I'll start with a control cigar to remind me what a Crema tastes like.

I plan to then smoke the "modified" cigars knowing which is which, one at a time during the next few days after that.

For the second batch of cigars (1 control, 3 modified), like I said before, I plan to ask my wife to remove the numbered bands and reassign a new number to each cigar, without her knowing which number is which cigar, so that nothing can influence her choice of numbers and therefore my interpretation of her decision. She will not know what I am smoking nor will I.

I will post my results as soon as I have smoked everything.

Interestingly, the Prez has started a similar experiment, but without participating himself in it :

Who can partake in a little Freezing Test?

Next week on the 22nd it shall be a month since I started the freezing experiment. Got quite a few in the freezer now ranging from Camacho to Trinidad Reyes. Will start with side by side smokings of freezer vs Humidor (control) with some experienced smokers.

Thank you for pointing the way to this experiment.

PAL

[tempbond]

Next week on the 22nd it shall be a month since I started the freezing experiment. Got quite a few in the freezer now ranging from Camacho to Trinidad Reyes. Will start with side by side smokings of freezer vs Humidor (control) with some experienced smokers.

Thank you for pointing the way to this experiment.

PAL

You're more than welcome. I haven't started my "tasting" yet: after the one month mark, I had the chance to smoke only once and it was in a cigar lounge and I didn't want the ample smoke in the place skewing my tastebuds, so maybe this upcoming weekend...

Good luck with your experiment, I'm curious about your results !

[PAL]

You're more than welcome. I haven't started my "tasting" yet: after the one month mark, I had the chance to smoke only once and it was in a cigar lounge and I didn't want the ample smoke in the place skewing my tastebuds, so maybe this upcoming weekend...

Good luck with your experiment, I'm curious about your results !

Thanks again for showing the way!

I have three levels of this experiement; or emergent experiment. By this I mean to say that I have a few CC in my freezer in my 'other place' for about two years and will get them this coming weekend. Have a couple more in another freezer for somewhere between 9 and 14 months (not sure) and then the ones for a month or less (inspired by your posting). The monte #2 I smoked from the freezer (9-14months) was amazingly good. That was another factor in prompting me to go forward as you suggested. The 22nd is my first try. Will go for some Trinidad Reyes I put in there as they are small and smoking two at once, freezer and 70% humidor will be easy enough. Can't wait!!

[PAL]

Well, the time has come for phase-one of the test: freezer for a month vs. humidor

Trinidad Reyes box I have five weeks ago. Ten in the freezer (in box in ziplock) rest, minus a couple, in the humidor (67% +/-).

smoke them both at the same time ( a new thing for me to smoke two at once).

Bottom line:

freezer had more smoke and better draw.

Humidor had better burn and flavors and much better finish. Slower burn too.

For sure the humidor one was the winner. Clearly so. The froze was not bad though.

Will try again and then, put some in the 60% humidor/dry-box and try them again.

Got several boxes to try in this way: Partigas 898, Ashton VSG, Comacho (churchill sized), Cohiba VI, and some more.

Will keep you all posted.

PAL

[tempbond]

Sorry for the delay in the tasting part of the experiment, but with winter upon us, I don't have many occasions to smoke. I only smoked one for now (not a blind tasting though), can you guess which one ?

A little hint : the weirder the better !

Cigar aging experiment - first tasting

[adic88]

A lot of drama and emo in this thread.

[Ginseng]

A lot of drama and emo in this thread.

Really? I hadn't noticed.

Wilkey

[mk05]

This reminds me of the time a member took apart a couple robos from different marcas to examine tobaccos couple years ago. Beside the cooking, the other discussion had been whether Swiss warehouses boost temperature.

Not everyone has the means to do a full on experiment tempbond, and I commend your efforts and the time you're putting into this, and that you're willing to share with us. And what is wrong with using JP, does a marca make this less interesting? He likes that cigar, he's had it numerous times - he know the cigar - seems like the ideal control if you ask me.

Just my thoughts here:

As for perceived "taste," I draft aging potential and experience in terms of a plotable x/y graph in my mind. What comes out lookis sort of like an asymmetric normal curve with a leptokurtic negative skew. Where x being flavor and y being strength, variables in the regression would be heat and temperature as you have selected. Why? With what we know as the fermentation process, other than the natural breakdown of the sugars and some catalysts, we know heat and humidity are the most pronounced factors.

So what you could have done is breakout degrees of heat with/or varying humidity, and plot that - all the while noting that taste is absolutely subjective.

I've also always wanted to microwave a cigar in different power settings in/out of cello in 10 second increments.

[mk05]

Oh and sublimation point of MSG seems to be around 232C, and combustion area of a lit cigar around 500C normal with variability from 380-630C, so you are definitely inhaling the gaseous form of MSG. 80% of taste is smell, and as that MSG subliminates, it could be adding/detracting from the flavors of the tobacco.

The science of taste is fascinating. Think about at what temperature a given piece of tobacco can extract flavors. A low temp of tobacco A gives mild cocoa. High temp of tobacco A yields bitter dark chocolate. And the most troubling part is that it's not just the combustion area. It's the area after where the temperature falls. As it drops from 600C to less than burning point, the tobacco releases oils and flavors, and at different points of that heated space (just saying) there are different flavors being released.

Thus the real question is intrinsically, what is the ideal burning temperature to extract the maximum aroma out of tobacco? This for sure, is all magic and the art of blending. (At first I thought what x temp does a y tobacco yield z flavor, but cigars are blended and the fusion of the blend creates the aroma, so that question would be mute)

I wonder if anyone has ever sliced a cigar into little truffle sized pieces and smoked them in a vaporizer at different heat settings.

[tempbond]

Oh and sublimation point of MSG seems to be around 232C, and combustion area of a lit cigar around 500C normal with variability from 380-630C, so you are definitely inhaling the gaseous form of MSG. 80% of taste is smell, and as that MSG subliminates, it could be adding/detracting from the flavors of the tobacco.

The science of taste is fascinating. Think about at what temperature a given piece of tobacco can extract flavors. A low temp of tobacco A gives mild cocoa. High temp of tobacco A yields bitter dark chocolate. And the most troubling part is that it's not just the combustion area. It's the area after where the temperature falls. As it drops from 600C to less than burning point, the tobacco releases oils and flavors, and at different points of that heated space (just saying) there are different flavors being released.

Thus the real question is intrinsically, what is the ideal burning temperature to extract the maximum aroma out of tobacco? This for sure, is all magic and the art of blending. (At first I thought what x temp does a y tobacco yield z flavor, but cigars are blended and the fusion of the blend creates the aroma, so that question would be mute)

I wonder if anyone has ever sliced a cigar into little truffle sized pieces and smoked them in a vaporizer at different heat settings.

Thank you for your comments. I agree with what you are saying, but I don't have the skill or knowledge to perform that level of experimentation. Pretty interesting though.