Raise the RH level

[bob25]

How can I raise the humidity in my wine-cooler until my beads arrives ?

Right now its 51% at the bottom and 59% at the top of the wine cooler.

[ammarhaider01]

Get some floral foam, the green spongy foam used at florists, cut it up into 2 halves or more depending on the size of the container you've got, put it in a plastic container and add distilled water until the foam is saturated, close the container up and punch a few holes in the lid, put one in bottom, and a smaller one on the top since the RH is around normal there.

That should work out ok, I've been using this method for a few months now, a DYI humidifier!

[semery74]

Buy some Silica Crystal or Gel Kitty Litter, fill some empty cigar boxes, tape the edges. Season the silica in an empty box until the environment stabilizes at 60-70%, then put them in your coolidor. Save your money on the beads, they are the biggest sucker magnet in the industry. The profit margin on beads and silica for cigars must be 1000%

[Colt45]

On the rare occasions I need to raise humidity in a cooler (regular insulated beverage ), I put a small bowl of water inside.

[daboose]

If you don't have the foam just put a clean sponge in a glass dish of distilled water.

[rckymtn22]

Good ideas above just make sure the RH% doesn't get to high. I am sure you don't want any mold.

[habanohal]

In the summers, I actually half too remove humidification units and bring humidity down. Use 4 lbs of beads in cabinet but still hard too bring down to 66 from 70

[PigFish]

Having a low RH problem is better than a high one in a sealed humidor. Getting the moisture out is far harder (good advice given above). What is your ambient RH outside the box? If it is really dry you might add a little water by any of the systems mentioned above. If the cigar boxes were previously in a 65 RH environment and you don't have a lot of exposed singles I would sit tight on the 50 RH and see what happens. If the closed boxes are acclimatized, the cigars inside are a-okay!

Best of luck with your project. -Piggy

[bob25]

jordan001 ,thanks a lot.

I tried the foam method and it worked great.

The RH is 65%-67%,much improvement.

If I new I wouldn't order the beads ...

My ambient RH outside is 70%-75% usually but in the wine cooler it much lower.

[ammarhaider01]

jordan001 ,thanks a lot.

I tried the foam method and it worked great.

The RH is 65%-67%,much improvement.

If I new I wouldn't order the beads ...

My ambient RH outside is 70%-75% usually but in the wine cooler it much lower.

Glad it worked I actually did some research online and found it to be the easiest, fastest, not to mention cheapest way to maintain RH, I'd rather spend the money on cigars! Just make sure you keep checking it to be sure it never goes above 70%.

[bob25]

I got the beads 2 days ago,put them inside after I spray on them with distilled water

and still the RH is stuck on 55%-57%.

I ordered 1 pound of beads after calculating the volume of my cooler in their site.

Do I need more beads maybe?

Its a 28 bottle wine cooler,what is amount of beads should I use?

[ammarhaider01]

You just need more destilled water, just add some more water to the beads and the RH would go up.

[CanuckSARTech]

On the rare occasions I need to raise humidity in a cooler (regular insulated beverage ), I put a small bowl of water inside.

Same. I slightly heat a small custard dish of distilled water in a microwave. There are inherent dangers in doing this (just do a google search of boiling distilled water). But, my mic would, say, boil it in 1 1/2 minutes, so I just put it in for 30 seconds or so, so it's just above room temperature and slightly humid and fogging. There really is a careful balance in this, as you don't want excessively hot and steaming water to go in there, or it will over-saturate the air in your closed environment, and could lead to moisture issues of the other ilk (too much moisture, which is much worse to have).

But, I find this really helps with the fast evaporation, and gets things going for you within 6-12 hours. It's basically what you do to help condition a brand new humidor and get the cedar absorbant.

[PigFish]

...My ambient RH outside is 70%-75% usually but in the wine cooler it much lower.

Try leaving the door open awhile!

[CanuckSARTech]

Try leaving the door open awhile!

LOL. Isn't that what the Cubans do anyways?!?!

[PigFish]

LOL. Isn't that what the Cubans do anyways?!?!

I know that reads like an ******* comment... but I assure you, while humorous, it was not intended to be snide. I asked the question about the outside ambient for a reason and if the outside is damp verses dry, it changes the solutions. With the outside being damp, exposing the boxes to the outside for a while will help solve the problem. Actively cooled and humidified humidors are almost useless in a cool, damp environment. One needs to know what one is fixing before a solution presents itself. I mean why add humidity to a system that is likely going to suffer from high humidity problems in the near future?

Just my 2 cents! -'y

[bob25]

I know that reads like an ******* comment... but I assure you, while humorous, it was not intended to be snide. I asked the question about the outside ambient for a reason and if the outside is damp verses dry, it changes the solutions. With the outside being damp, exposing the boxes to the outside for a while will help solve the problem. Actively cooled and humidified humidors are almost useless in a cool, damp environment. One needs to know what one is fixing before a solution presents itself. I mean why add humidity to a system that is likely going to suffer from high humidity problems in the near future?

Just my 2 cents! -'y

I'm sorry but I didn't understand,so the only solution is to let the boxes rests outside?

Thats pretty much fails to fulfill my purpose of buying a cooler.

My temp outside is more than 82F usually, so letting the cigars rest

outside is putting them in risk of getting them dry or beetles.

[CanuckSARTech]

I know that reads like an ******* comment... but I assure you, while humorous, it was not intended to be snide. I asked the question about the outside ambient for a reason and if the outside is damp verses dry, it changes the solutions. With the outside being damp, exposing the boxes to the outside for a while will help solve the problem. Actively cooled and humidified humidors are almost useless in a cool, damp environment. One needs to know what one is fixing before a solution presents itself. I mean why add humidity to a system that is likely going to suffer from high humidity problems in the near future?

Just my 2 cents! -'y

Oh granted, completely agreed. And no, Piggy, I didn't think it was versed rudely at all.

Just funny when you think about it - the simpleness of some of the best solutions to these storage problems that people tend to have.

Or, we could also all move to Havana and use Mother Nature's humidor there - it would save the need to buy/create all these contraptions!

[CanuckSARTech]

I'm sorry but I didn't understand,so the only solution is to let the boxes rests outside?

Thats pretty much fails to fulfill my purpose of buying a cooler.

My temp outside is more than 82F usually, so letting the cigars rest

outside is putting them in risk of getting them dry or beetles.

No, not the cigars, not for long term no. I think Piggy meant more to open up the door, and let your beads get acclimatized to the higher RH air that you have outside of your humidor, and then once things absorb up, to close up the door and bring the temp down and then add more water from there as needed.

In my opinion, that's sort of the drawback with these fridge-humidors. There's no "body" to the interior to hold a steady and decent amount of moisture. With everything inside being plastic and metal, when you open it and disturb/draw out the air from inside, your RH can vary wildly. A lot of people line these things with cedar wood, or use them as the shelves themselves - gives more material there to hold RH, rather than just the cigar boxes and a little bit of beads.

[PigFish]

No, not the cigars, not for long term no. I think Piggy meant more to open up the door, and let your beads get acclimatized to the higher RH air that you have outside of your humidor, and then once things absorb up, to close up the door and bring the temp down and then add more water from there as needed.

In my opinion, that's sort of the drawback with these fridge-humidors. There's no "body" to the interior to hold a steady and decent amount of moisture. With everything inside being plastic and metal, when you open it and disturb/draw out the air from inside, your RH can vary wildly. A lot of people line these things with cedar wood, or use them as the shelves themselves - gives more material there to hold RH, rather than just the cigar boxes and a little bit of beads.

It goes far beyond that but you are on the right track. I have to get to my horses so I will have to be brief here.

Solutions are based on the parameters of the problems. If there is no controller on the fridge and it is being asked to deliver a 55 deg. internal (just a guess) and overcome a 30 deg. differential, I have doubts that a passive system will ever overcome power of condensation.

The truth about humidor performance is first judged with a data logger! You then use experience, a few techo gizmos along with a little work to fix the problems that you find. I doubt 70 RH and 80 degrees together are going to ruin anyones cigars... ask any Cuban. Pushing to maitain conditions outside of what a plastic insulated box with a Peltier cooler is designed to perform "can" ruin your cigars and that is why I am commenting. The cigars, the boxes, the intererioir, the cooler, the humidifier and the outside condtions all play a role in how your system will work. So what you are trying to accomplish inside has a lot of factors. What it is like outside is one the most important ones.

Asking a Peltier cooler to overcome a 30 deg. differential is a pretty big task. They will run almost constantly to perform this task. The cooler, as it reaches a temperature at or below 3 degrees of the dew point will precipitate water; you will get condensation.

I have never done much work with beads, they may be great for static environments but I have little faith in their ability to compensate for the "active" cigar humidor. I have yet to see a chart showing at what rate they absorb or evaporate water vapor for an envelope of atmospheric conditions. But as you cool them, and the energy of the air is lost, I doubt that they work very fast as they depend on that "energy" of the air to perform their process.

You have choices. Fill the humidor with acclimatized items; more cigars equalized at 65 RH. Move your cooler to a cooler location. Add an active humidifier to the system and be prepared then to deal with the problem of over humidification!

I will bump a thread for the last humidor that I built and you may want to read my tutorial on building one of these. Ozzy and I (Ozcuban) have had some engaging converstions regarding humdor testing. I think he is a bead user and he might haves some solutions for you as well. Reviewing those might be of some help too.

Best, Piggy

[CanuckSARTech]

Piggy, was that for me, or for Bob25? 'Cause while I appreciate the info, I have no need for the temp-controlled system. Different story where Bob is though.

[PigFish]

It was for Bob. I used your quote because you picked up where I left off.

I like two stage humidors but acknowledge that everyone does not need one. Hell, if I didn't I would not use them. I have a new design in mind that I will be building soon. If it works as planned it is go in almost any environment and work within a narrow range and not cycle the cigars through swings like all existing refrigerated systems do.

I am interested in that ABB controller that another member used in his project. I need a more flexible or possibly a programable unit for my next project.

I took a look at your end table unit... Nice! Best, Piggy

[CanuckSARTech]

It was for Bob. I used your quote because you picked up where I left off.

I like two stage humidors but acknowledge that everyone does not need one. Hell, if I didn't I would not use them. I have a new design in mind that I will be building soon. If it works as planned it is go in almost any environment and work within a narrow range and not cycle the cigars through swings like all existing refrigerated systems do.

I am interested in that ABB controller that another member used in his project. I need a more flexible or possibly a programable unit for my next project.

I took a look at your end table unit... Nice! Best, Piggy

Noted, thanks.

Yeah, that ABB controller looked amazing. IF I ever did a closet convert into a small walk-in, this would be the unit that I would look to get (and this would only work if the Mrs. in reciprocity got a full-size walk-in closet for herself - so, that's not happening at this point). Seems like a good all-encompassing unit.

[bob25]

Piggy, thanks a lot for the informative answer,I sure learned a lot.

Its true that my cooler work nonstop ,its summer now and its 30C+ all the time in here.

The AC work only when I'm home which is in the evening,I cant let it work all day.

As for an active humidifier,Do you mean something like that perhaps?

http://www.heartfeltindustries.com/proddet...p?prod=HYDRA_SM

Will it be sufficient for a 28 bottles cooler ?

I'm looking for a solution that wont take a lot of maintenance.like the beads or some other humidification device.

I doubt that I'll have time or ability to start building crazy stuff inside the cooler.

As for letting them "rest" outside for a little while,before I purchased the wine cooler I had boxes laying in a coolidor were the temp was almost all the time more than 30C inside and the cigars eventually got dry although the RH inside was ~70%.

In comparison to newer boxes I got that you can feel that the cigars are still fresh from the waterhouse.

This is why I came to a conclusion that I need a wine-cooler fast ,so I could store my cigars in lower temp,I just didn't realized that I will have such hard time to keep a good RH level especially where I live which is such a humid place all year long.

I thought this hobby supposed to be relaxing...

[PigFish]

You have now discovered for yourself the problems with refrigerated humidors, AND why many people unplug them or give up on them. The picture... this one:

... is still in my garage, and it is 100 degrees in there during the day. I smoke out of this humidor regularly (even though it is not my regular smoking humidor) while my smoking humidor, an Aristocrat in the house, has crept to 70 RH because of the humidity this time of year. I could take all kinds of steps to try and beat the humidity in it... but why bother? It will come back down eventually, naturally through evaporation.

While it appears vainglorious to post my project it is not really. Frankly, if you need to have a refrigerated system overcome a 30 degree differential, this is what you need make! While I cannot write with assurity that there is only one way, my way, I can tell you it works and I can prove it with a data logger.

You need to reread my previous post. Those are your options. I think you need to get your cooler, into a cooler location and with the beads, or perhaps an active system it may very well work for you. I AM SPECULATING, THAT IS ALL I CAN DO OVER THE INTERNET!

Here is another idea. You are going to think this is stupid but I assure you, it is not! Find some plastic type storage boxes that will fit stacked, say two of them, in your humidor. Seal your cigars, with some beads in them so that they, the cigar boxes, are not exposed to the dry air. They will be refrigerated as you desire because they are in you cooler, but they will be separated from the "refrigerated air," the dry air, which is your problem. I see this as the simplest solution.

You must understand that RH, Dew Point and Temperature, while liked work against each other. There is a myth about Peltier type coolers, in that because they are not fast reacting like pressurized plasma types that they are better. That is hog wash! Peltier coolers are just one way to skin a cat. They have their problems and you just found ONE OF THEM! Don't feel alone... many others have too.

If you want this to work, you need to at least, in some degree emulate my project. There is no way aound it, other than what I have suggested above. You need to bring down your cooling differential in some way. Either by tinkering with the Peltier cooler control, where the internal temperature is closer to say 70 degrees or the house, making it also closer to 70 degrees. Use an active humidifier, which will cause you other problems in your current situation...

I am going to repeat that... If you put an active humidifier in what you have now... YOU WILL END UP WITH A SWAMP

TRY THE TUPPERWARE SEGREGATION METHOD, USE THE BEADS IN THEM, TINKER OR FIND A MEANS TO CONTROL THE COOLERS TEMPERATURE AND BRING IT CLOSER TO 70 DEGREES.

These three ideas should help remidy your problem, or fix it altogether.

Best, Ray (aka Piggy)

Bold type and all caps used for emphasis. Please do not construe this as me yelling at you!!! -R