Cohiba Siglo VI and Cohiba Maduro 5 Genios Wrapper Change

[Ginseng]

» Swapping wrappers on a Cohiba Siglo VI and Cohiba Maduro 5 Genios.

And so the evidence builds. Fascinating.

Wilkey

[BigSlick]

WOW! More unchartered waters get crossed! Looking forward to the CoRo review.

[Mike33]

Very, very cool stuff in this and the Monte post Rob! Not to sound like a smart-ass, but I had always thought the wrapper made a HUGE difference in the profile of a cigar. I know some say the wrapper accounts for only a small portion of the overall cigar's taste (5-10%), but I think these tests if not destroy this belief, they certainly knock it down a peg or two.

[tapewormboy]

Another great review Prez!

From reading this and the Monte #2 Light vs Dark review, it seems that the wrapper leaf is VERY significant in terms of flavor and body.

Looking forward to the next installment...

[Trevor2118]

Rob, have you tried both cigars........each without their wrappers?

[El Presidente]

» Rob, have you tried both cigars........each without their wrappers?

I haven't done a comparison taste test of the binder and filler of the Cohiba Siglo VI and the Cohiba Genios (removing wrappers completely in order to assess filler).

Worthwhile doing just to double check. Will aim for early next week.

[anacostiakat]

Very interesting and informative. :-)

Now what is interesting to me is that this has a correlation on the variation in wrapper shades. The other post with the Monte #2s seem to confirm this.

The two threads together provide valuable information.

[brian1]

Rob,

I guess you have not got the call from Habanos S.A to cease and desist your little experiments LOL..

Great stuff. Keep it up.

[Loki]

Fascinating. Let the experimenting continue.

[Wiley]

The cigars in your photos always look better than the real thing. ;-)

Great info! Keep up your hard work!

[Colt45]

» I guess you have not got the call from Habanos S.A to cease and desist

» your little experiments LOL..

Good point. If in fact it is basically a Siglo VI with a different wrapper, you are paying over $6 U.S. for the maduro wrapper.

I don't know how this translates to the costs of the maduro processing, but I guess it doesn't sound that far out of line?

Well done, Rob.

[Claudius]

As your tasting proves, the wrapper has significant influence on the overall taste of the cigar. IMO there are 2 main reasons for this:

- the wrapper is like a spice or salt in a dish: a small part of the whole thing, yet it's absence, presence or quality have tremendous influence on the outcome.

- the wrapper is the part of the cigar that you taste first because it's the part that burns first. Ever smoked a cigar too fast? The foot becomes a cone, where the inside is longest, ie burns last. So the outside is what burns first. :-)

[Don Candido]

» Summary:

»

» 1. I detect no or very minimal difference in the blend between the COHIBA

» SIGLO VI and COHIBA MADURO 5 GENIOS.

»

» 2.

» * Cohiba Siglo VI with a Genios Wrapper became a Genios.

» * Cohiba Genios with a Siglo VI wrapper became a Siglo VI

»

» In this experiment the wrapper determined the cigar. It is possible (not

» proved) that what has occured is that we may have stumbled on the fact

» that both cigars use the same basic blend but obviously two completely

» different wrappers. Kudos to Habanos/TABACUBA on the Maduro 5 wrapper. The

» changes it brings to a cigar are immense.

»

» Not sure we were supposed to find that out

»

» Tomorrow I will do a similar test but with a Cohiba Robusto and Maduro 5

» Magicos.....again with changed wrappers.

These wrapper change write-ups are some of the most interesting articles I have ever read on cigars.

I have never believed people who said the wrapper is a very small percentage of the flavor. I have always felt the flavor is all about the wrapper, but I always wondered if I was being influenced by the sight of the color I thought I liked the most.

Although it is certainly not the same, your tests remind me of drinking wine blind or trying cigars without bands blind when you switch the wrapper like you do.

Thanks for these reports.

DC

[El Presidente]

Swapping wrappers on a Cohiba Siglo VI and Cohiba Maduro 5 Genios.

The purpose of this experiment was to assess two points:

1. How much Blend difference is between the two cigars?

2. How much does the wrapper influence the flavour or the cigar.

I have smoked multitudes of each cigar from the same boxes and can summarise the flavours in their natural state as follows:

Cohiba Siglo VI.

Very smooth yet lacking in definitve flavours. At differing points there are elements of grassy creaminess combined with a very light milk coffee. The body is medium or just shy of medium. The real strength of this cigar is its smoothness which leaves you in no doubt of its quality. There is just enough flavour to maintain your interest but not quite enough to completely satisy you as you often yearn for a little more. Little complexity change throughout the cigar, the burn is excellent as is the draw and level of white smoke. Little in the way of pepper spices....just pure smoothness and serenity which appear to be its ace in the hole. I can understand why so many like this cigar but my preference is for the fuller flavoured Cohiba Robusto.

Cohiba Maduro 5 Genios.

Medium to Medium full in body. All cocoa, charred wood and some element of pepper spice in the opening which disappears quickly. Smooth cigar and it is a unique cigar unlike anything else Cuba has produced. There is a chocolate (bitter chocolate) which is its calling card and stays with you from beginning to end. The body of the cigar ebbs and flows from a medium full opening which slowly diminishes to medium and eventually light medium. The charred wood is also a constant and mixes seamlessly and beautifully with the the bitter chocolate. This is my favourite of the Maduro 5 line although I have had had some excellent Secretos of late.

Again Yasmel (Level 9 Cigar roller from Partagas) changed the wrappers of the cigars for me. He did not use any water to moisten the wrapper leaves.

TEST 1

COHIBA MADURO 5 GENIOS WITH COHIBA VI WRAPPER

Very smooth opening. Just a hint of cocoa...barest hint. Medium/light medium in body. Minimal pepper spices through the nose, soft on the palate, viscous smoke coats the tongue but lacking a little in defineable flavours. Again very smooth, enjoyable but I am still searching for a little more flavour. Plenty of finesse, quality and yet?

More grassy, creamy, light milk coffee notes coming through but they are notes and not a symphony. Just looking for something more. Occasionally getting the barest hint of cocoa but it is a fleeting sense that remains for no more than a minute and then drifts away.

I am a little stunned by this tasting.....I am in essence smoking a Cogiba Siglo VI in its original form. The dusting of rare cocoa may be a leftover from the oils of the original Genios wrapper on the binder...or a slight difference in blend...but it is so insignificant it is barely worth a mention.

TEST 2

COHIBA SIGLO VI WITH A COHIBA MADURO 5 GENIOS WRAPPER.

Punchy opening, medium full with some nice pepper spice. Bitter chocolate and spice initially come to the fore but the pepper notes leave quickly to be replaced by charred wood. Bitter chocolate and charred woody notes in a medium body.....sound familiar? Roll over Bethoven....I am smoking a Cohiba Maduro 5 Genios!!!! The similarities are stunning. Same body, same flavour profile, maybe...just maybe... a touch spicier but we are talking miniscule differences here. Enjoying this cigar very much. No great flavour changes as it progresses through its length just slight variations in body from Medium full to medium to light medium before finishing a little spicy. Charred wood and bitter chocolate again are the dominant features.

Summary:

1. I detect no or very minimal difference in the blend between the COHIBA SIGLO VI and COHIBA MADURO 5 GENIOS.

2.

* Cohiba Siglo VI with a Genios Wrapper became a Genios.

* Cohiba Genios with a Siglo VI wrapper became a Siglo VI

In this experiment the wrapper determined the cigar. It is possible (not proved) that what has occured is that we may have stumbled on the fact that both cigars use the same basic blend but obviously two completely different wrappers. Kudos to Habanos/TABACUBA on the Maduro 5 wrapper. The changes it brings to a cigar are immense.

Not sure we were supposed to find that out

Tomorrow I will do a similar test but with a Cohiba Robusto and Maduro 5 Magicos.....again with changed wrappers.

[terrantheman]

Nice reviews and very interesting. Note to self: Get my own roller

[grateful1]

Nice reviews and very interesting. Note to self: Get my own roller

I thought you rolled your own!

Very nice comparision.

[Fatshotbud]

An interesting test but the results don't surprise me.

Nice that you go through time and effort (and cost) to run these experiments - Thanks!

Enjoyed the read

[Padrino]

Not to pointlessly revive an old thread but.......

After reading Rob's post I can't help but have the sneaky suspicion that the Cohiba 2006 EL was merely a Habanos Selección Pirámide Cohiba with a maduro wrapper....

Care to give it a try Prez ???

[OLS]

In a way I am almost not surprised, I know I am shocked by the results of the test first-off,

but what does not surprise me is the chances that they ARE the same cigar. Say you were

Habanos SA and you were going to launch this Maduro cigar. Would you not think FIRST,

"hey, what's the cigar in the Cohiba line that is getting the most buzz as best Cohiba, or best

Siglo?" The 6, naturally. It is a fantastic cigar. So why even try to come up with a new blend

when you have this dominating wrapper that is going to cover your tracks so completely, anyway.

Arguably a better call might be to slide towards the Sublime Blend, but that's another animal.

It's certainly plausible.

[jackohalloran]

Hmmm very interesting.

[Chunks96ss]

Great experiment, thanks for the comparison

[JSPEC]

Very interesting to say the least.

[bobmirko]

You guy's revive old thread

[imangelo]

Fascinating! I didn't expect the wrapper to have such a dramatic shift for a larger ring rauge. Though I was expecting a noticeable change, that was a rather unexpected turnout.

[shlomo]

Fascinating! I didn't expect the wrapper to have such a dramatic shift for a larger ring rauge. Though I was expecting a noticeable change, that was a rather unexpected turnout.

There are many who believe that the wrapper accounts for more than 50% of the flavour of a cigar. Its an age old discussion. Many also believe that the wrapper accounts for less than 10%.

Personally, I'm in the very high percentage camp. Somewhere around 75-80%