Convert a upright freezer or large coolerdor.

[airtrade]

I am looking to set up a larger humidor in my basement. It stays around 68 deg year round so I don't need cooling. Wondering if a few 150 qt coolers on end with shelves is the way to go. Or pick up a non working upright freezer.

[PigFish]

There are a couple of guys around the site, Skyfall, that use a freezer. Don't think however that you will be able to use much in the way of active humidification, with exception of some specialty devices or you will get over humidification in an ostensibly airtight humidor.

The key will be finding a balance with your humidity, but there are plenty around that believe that they can achieve what they want and like with beads…

Best of luck on your project. -Piggy

[airtrade]

A concern I have would be recovering RH after opening the large door.

What specialty device are you referring to?

[Optic101]

You may find some more information from Daboose "Vault".

http://www.friendsofhabanos.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=100310&hl=%2Bdaboose+%2Bvault#entry236571

[dubleuhb]

I use a freezer. What is the RH in your basement ? Mine gets a bit dry being in the NE US in winter. In the summer I run a Dehumidifier and set it at 65%, That is for the basement. I don't use any active humidification, just have 5 or 6 lbs of beads in there. I have had no issues at all, in the winter a light spritz of the beads after opening is all I do.

[dubleuhb]

I did forget that I have a couple small fans in there also. Also I found when you stack boxes it is best to keep them off the sides/back. It allows for better circulation throughout.

[PigFish]

A concern I have would be recovering RH after opening the large door.

What specialty device are you referring to?

While my specialty is fully active controlled humidors, I dabble in fooling with all kinds of humidor ideas.

When I put an active humidifier in an ice chest, guess what, the passive evaporation from the humidifier drove the sealed humidor slowly through the roof. This is what happens in sealed humidors were there is 'free' or wet water. Water will move from high concentration (a liquid state) to low concentration in an attempt to achieve 100rH or EM (equilibrium moisture). Physics demands it!

Some feel that polymer gels can control this. I have not experimented with them so I cannot tell you if it is true or not. But, since I am a purveyor of beaded desiccants for cigar use, and have an extensive knowledge of desiccants for this purpose, I have designed a powered desiccant humidifier that when used with a saturated desiccant and a controller will actively humidify a space with far less risk of over humidification. I tested one for a number of years in my California Cooler (a pet trade name) for my actively humidified ice chest cooler idea.

Frankly the idea of using controls on such a small device, where there is little pay pack in the investment for controls is not commercially viable (as I see it) so I pretty much scrapped the project. The active desiccant humidifier on the other hand is a viable concept.

For example, I have a wine cooler humidor that I have had in service for a number of years, an early prototype of my work, that I have had a power supply issue with. As it is more important to me to satisfy my customers than to fix something of my own (the contractors wife home scenario) I have allowed those cigars to live without cooling for the winter months. The only issue was one of some need for active humidification going forward until I could fix the 'whole' system. Since a 'wet' humidifier is out of the question (no cooling and dehydration) my best temporary solution has been for me add a desiccant humidifier.

When the box has a demand for water, it simply initiates the desiccant humidifier just as it would a 'wet' humidifier. The humidifier does not have a huge reservoir for water, as the system is at least semi sealed and it is not required. If I notice it running for more that a few minutes I know it is getting dry and I add about 10 to 20ml of water to the beads. The beads suck up all the water in short order and they trickle it out, or have it distributed when there is a demand and the fan is initiated.

If the door is opened and the rH drops, the controller will signal the demand and the system works almost as well as an active 'wet' humidifier. I have to say almost, because no 'dry' humidifier will ever work like a wet, active one. That would be a false statement. But since the beads are deliberately over-saturated, and active, it works better than any passive system…

Hope that answers your questions. -Piggy

[airtrade]

I use a freezer. What is the RH in your basement ? Mine gets a bit dry being in the NE US in winter. In the summer I run a Dehumidifier and set it at 65%, That is for the basement. I don't use any active humidification, just have 5 or 6 lbs of beads in there. I have had no issues at all, in the winter a light spritz of the beads after opening is all I do.

The RH in the summer gets around 60% AC dehumidifies somewhat down there. Winter will get bone dry in SW Ohio.

Piggy, very clear explanation. Sounds like system that will remove excess humidity and can actively raise the RH much faster than beads alone. I like it.

[canadianbeaver]

Piggy stop it. You know what this does to me.

I use a 6 ft. Liebherr temperature wine fridge with beautiful cedar shelves. I got it as an alternative to an Aristocrat, simply because the style of the Aristocrat was too traditional for my style. I have humidity/temperature gauges at the top and bottom. There are tin foil bread size baking tins with knee-high panty hose filled with crystal cat litter moistened with our tap water. That is just being honest. I keep them behind the boxes so you cannot see them.

My humidor is a consistent 67/67 so it seems to work.

[PigFish]

Oh Lisa!!!

Constant is what one sees! If I don't see the squirrels eating my horses grain then it does not happen! If I sleep from before sundown to after sunup, it is always light at my house… -LOL

There are huge methodical differences to controlling passive verses actively cooled systems. Your ambient conditions play a role. I am way past telling people what they have does not work for them, I am strictly speaking about what does or does not work for me!

Hygrometers will read the water in space if you suspend them in it and circulate air around them. They will read boxes, cigars, beads or any other hygroscopic material that they are near as long as they represent a source for water vapor.

Cigars themselves are not newborn babies. You certainly are not going to damage them by taking them out and organizing your humidor, take some along on a trip and putting them back, nor by keeping your humidor 'less than perfect' all the time.

The pursuit of perfection is a niche of mine (as you know already). It keeps me from bagging on Tabacuba for canceling the Diplomatico line (the important parts of it) 24/7….

It is best to have your wall board up before bringing in the painter… Just like construction or any other endeavor there are best practices. I think I am qualified to talk about them because I experiment with humidor science, cigar climatology as I call it, incessantly.

I have found a lot of common practices don't work for me. Does not work for me and "will damage your cigars" are not the same. There is no correlation and I have never made it… Now if I see a practice that will likely lead to a dead end or damage to one's stock, I will often speak up about it. I mean watching someone make a project that I know will fail just so they learn the hard way is in no one's best interest so I will generally intervene if I see the thread and understand what they are attempting to achieve.

When one cools a humidified space with a heat sink that drops below the dew point, a lot of things happen really quickly. "I believe" that active systems only work well when well designed, and when they have active appliances that are run with some precision. I can prove this… So I believe it…

Working well is something like beauty, or even a good cigar to most people. To many, it is only what they see that counts. This is why I data log. I look for what I cannot see and draw my conclusions from electronic records of performance.

I also used to tell people to buy data loggers. I know a few members that have but I don't really tell people to do it anymore. I say that when you are happy with the results of your own humidor you have achieved perfection!!! If you like the cigars in it and how they are conditioned, well there is no need for, nor any truth in anyone else telling you, you are not doing it right!!! The right or wrong ways to store is a personal preference and a personal conclusion.

On the other hand, I hear a lot from members that have concluded that they are doing something wrong… Generally, they get around to emailing me… and then it does become my problem! That is all the opportunity I need and IT IS THEN I TELL THEM THEY ARE DOING IT ALL WRONG… -LOL

Cheer… -Ray

[airtrade]

I am not tied to any one method for maintaining a humidor. Expense is as usual a main concern. If I could afford it I would buy a large climate controlled unit wood or sealed. My budget will not accommodate one at this time.

I am currently using a wood humidor for singles 1.6 cu ft with 70%HF beads and a Coleman cooler with 70% HF beads for several boxes.

Recently beginning to collect CC and want more space without numerous coolers and maintenance.

By building one myself I may be able to afford a fully automated unit. And bring my cigars back into our living space which I prefer.

I am looking at the basement for temp control, but it is an unfinished area and not my ideal space to keep my cigars.

So I am open to ideas and I love to find that best bang for the buck in everything.

Thanks Stefan

[PigFish]

I am not tied to any one method for maintaining a humidor. Expense is as usual a main concern. If I could afford it I would buy a large climate controlled unit wood or sealed. My budget will not accommodate one at this time.

I am currently using a wood humidor for singles 1.6 cu ft with 70%HF beads and a Coleman cooler with 70% HF beads for several boxes.

Recently beginning to collect CC and want more space without numerous coolers and maintenance.

By building one myself I may be able to afford a fully automated unit. And bring my cigars back into our living space which I prefer.

I am looking at the basement for temp control, but it is an unfinished area and not my ideal space to keep my cigars.

So I am open to ideas and I love to find that best bang for the buck in everything.

Thanks Stefan

… this is the reason I started my company. Ultimately I never wanted to spend the money to buy a fully controlled humidor by one of the "name" makers.

Instead I have spent about 25 times that amount developing my own… ! -LOL

I cater to the DIY humidor maker. While my stuff isn't cheap either, I figure you save about 50% by building your own, and get a better system with proven performance as the result of investing some of your own efforts in the project.

Good luck on your projects… -the Pig

[partriar]

Piggy, may i ask, what is the name of your company and do you have a website? You have such a wealth of knowledge and I'd love to see some of your products.

I too am deciding on where to go the freezer route. I was thinking a chest thou, with individual air tight containers with beads or boveda packs.

Basically something for long term ageing.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[CUBANO]

Ray,

Why you don't recommend data loggers anymore? I bought one a few months ago after looking at your pretty charts, and it has been a wealth of information on temp, humi,and dew point on my humidors.

[airtrade]

… this is the reason I started my company. Ultimately I never wanted to spend the money to buy a fully controlled humidor by one of the "name" makers.

Instead I have spent about 25 times that amount developing my own… ! -LOL

I cater to the DIY humidor maker. While my stuff isn't cheap either, I figure you save about 50% by building your own, and get a better system with proven performance as the result of investing some of your own efforts in the project.

Good luck on your projects… -the Pig

Thanks, I think I'm going to go with a cooler/ice chest short term. If it's ok I will email you for ideas and costs for an active DIY setup.

[PigFish]

Ray,

Why you don't recommend data loggers anymore? I bought one a few months ago after looking at your pretty charts, and it has been a wealth of information on temp, humi,and dew point on my humidors.

Well I use them… I have more invested in them than many have in cigars…! -LOL

There are facts and then there is bliss… Those looking for facts often don't find bliss and those looking for bliss, often find it without the facts…

I have spoken to many, many people about their cigars storage. I typically ask why they contact me and what they want and more specifically why what they have is not working for them anymore?

There is a difference to solving real world humidor controls and conditions issues and finding bliss. One is a question of science, some art and a few bucks. One is an issue for a shrink!!! Sometimes I can solve both issues but I honestly attempt to solve the issue of cigar bliss first while it is often contrary to me selling anything. My goal is to teach people to take care of their of their cigars. I don't really care how they do it, or if they buy anything from me or not. I have told many, many people that they don't need what I sell.

Believe it or not, some people just what to hear that it is "okay." That what they are doing is not going to ruin their prized stock. Believing that cigars are robust 'souls' I don't jade what I say based on a desire to sell a product. I tell them what I think and that is often, "If the details have never bothered you before, why now?"

I tend to cater to those that want to control their stock within a narrow band, fix a specific problem that only I can appear to solve and those like myself that are convinced that the majority of poor smoking experiences are based on two premises; one, choosing the right cigar, and two, improper storage of any cigar.

Some of us have linked water content in the cigar to the final taste and experience. Some of us can taste it! If you cannot, I say that you have a blessing… If you are happy with your cigars and how they smoke you have found bliss…

Back to data logging. If you are in search of finding answers for why you have problems the data logger is the only real answer. If you want better storage, the data logger is the only way to know. If you live in bliss, and believe in facts, the data logger is the surest way to ruin your state of mind!

I data log everyday. I never have a finished product (looking at products as a developer) because I am in search of perfection. I doubt I will ever find a product that I will call perfect and mine are as close as they get.

It gets hard for a guy like me to distinguish imperfection from failure. While I am in a position where I love the performance of my products, I find it harder and harder to understand why people think what they have works? That is because in my mind, what they are doing does not work… Something must equalize that equation. I mean 2+2 on my side cannot = 2+18 on their side, if we look at the mathematics alone! I have concluded that there is more to the equation than facts and science. But when the 'bliss' integer is inserted in the aforementioned equation then what does not work (for me) can works for everyone else!!!

Realizing that most people want to be happy and not a reason to be unhappy I have come to realize that the "bliss" integer is therefore as important in the real world as the science.

The data logger sometimes takes the "bliss integer" out of your equation. I say you should be sure of your personality type before you give up on bliss in search of facts. Be careful what you look for… You just might find out something that you did not want to know and were happy not knowing…! This line of reasoning does not work for me. But it does work for many, many people from cigars to politics, from health to home finances!

Bliss for a person like me is knowing that I live in a world of facts and not fantasy. The threshold between facts and fantasy is real. The bliss integer allows the line to be drawn anywhere by anyone and it makes the world, and cigar storage work where science clearly defines it differently!

So that is my take on cigar storage, data logging and the world! -LOL

Cheers, -Ray

[PigFish]

Thanks, I think I'm going to go with a cooler/ice chest short term. If it's ok I will email you for ideas and costs for an active DIY setup.

My email is in my profile. Have at it! -R

[PigFish]

Piggy, may i ask, what is the name of your company and do you have a website? You have such a wealth of knowledge and I'd love to see some of your products.

I too am deciding on where to go the freezer route. I was thinking a chest thou, with individual air tight containers with beads or boveda packs.

Basically something for long term ageing.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

…been too busy to finish a website. I am a one man show.

While I have owned the domain CigarClimatology.com for years now and have purchased web products to go along with it, I have never finished the website. Maybe someday… I call my company CigarClimatology.

So far my word-of-mouth business has been as much as I can handle. My business is a lot of handholding and teaching. It is pretty specific to what each customer wants while at the same time, they all get pretty much the same solution.

I am not really ready to become point and click. There is too much to know, to understand about the customer, to teach the customer to be point and click. I don't know if that will ever change.

I don't really want people buying stuff that they cannot use, or will not solve their problem. Point and click, while it is profitable is not really always the right solution to the customers problem. That is where I am at today. I would rather solve problems than sell stuff. I have taken my same candid view where facts are facts and myths are myths and applied it to my business. Myth buying is great for sales and equally poor for results. I don't sell myth…

Email me if you want to talk cigars and cigar climatology. My email is in the profile.

Cheers, Ray

[Skyfall]

I'm a little late on this. Several brothers have PM'd me about freezers this week. If anybody has any questions, PM me. Ray has forgotten more about this stuff than I'll ever know, but my set ups are truly set and forget and highly efficient.

[PigFish]

I'm a little late on this. Several brothers have PM'd me about freezers this week. If anybody has any questions, PM me. Ray has forgotten more about this stuff than I'll ever know, but my set ups are truly set and forget and highly efficient.

Thanks for the complements my friend…

I hear (read) the term 'set and forget' a lot… Damn… I wish I had coined it… The term says it all.

I guess ultimately what set and forget means, is up to interpretation. I have said over and over again… We all settle somewhere on something. Where you settle will be defined by your system. Regardless of whether you buy something or emulate another, there is no perfection to be found that is until you define for yourself a perfect climate. Perfect climate and acceptable climate are seen as the same thing to most cigar smokers. I don't see them that way, but I make humidors and I am picky about what I call facts verses what I call beliefs… You know this already!

Over the last month or so I have been working with a couple of guys in Oz to engineer a system that you can buy in Oz… That is not really the point but I got to talking about high humidity control with one of the guys and it got me to thinking about how people visualize what humidor control really is.

I post data logs all the time as most of you know, but for kicks I took my camera out to a humidor in my lab, set it to watch the controller, which I typical set up to float externally on the top of a humidor for testing and took a few minutes of footage.

I did this yesterday or the day before. On Isla Pigfish, it was about 70 to 73dF and 70 to 73rH depending on where you stood…

While I watch humidors all the time, and I use only sensitive, high resolution equipment, I know that until one of my customers buys a system, they don't really understand what the hell I am talking about until they see it work. I translate a data log into images that reflect the data logs performance. I see precision humidors work everyday… Hell, I have more than one!!! So for me a data log says it all… I forget sometimes that most people don't have the images that I rely on, to pull the information on a data log into real life… So here is some real life with set and forget as it is seen at my place!

I put this file in my Dropbox and here is a shared link to same. One day when I spend a little more time on videoing, I will probably start posting stuff to YouTube… All in good time.

When I say set and forget this is what it means to me… Cheers!

I will leave the link up a few days. To all that download and watch, it is about 100MB, enjoy.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/rbut2qecihz7yr9/2014-07-09%2021.19.54.mov

[UpInSmoak]

Ray great video! What do the 61 and 62 on the monitor represent during the cycle of numbers?

Great setup, one day I hope!

[UpInSmoak]

I watched it again. It's actually b1 and b2. I assume they are the names(codes ) that reflect the upcoming display of temp (b1) and rH (b2). Excellent stuff! Glad I figured that out. I'm not as slow as I look. Haha

[PigFish]

I have my controls OEM for me by a European controls maker. They don't really care about display preferences, and since I have to keep the nonvolatile memory for the programming to a minimum as a means to keep these inexpensive, I don't get to choose symbols such as rH, F or C to indicate what you are looking at.

b1 and b2 are commonplace nomenclature in the process controls industry for probe1 and probe2. b1 in my system represents temperature and you can choose ˚C or ˚F. b2 represents rH.

You can fix the display to watch a number of things but I prefer the display change between both rH and temperature so that is how I set them up.

I spend money on things that matter the most. Once one understands the symbology there is no confusion over what things mean but everyone asks me that question… and I just forget to explain it. Just like the visualization of the data logs, I forget that people don't really know what I am taking about until it has been adequately described… Thanks for asking!

I recycle a lot of my old stuff and this is a first generation "enclosure." If one is likely to forget, I can CNC scribe it into a cover plate for them!!! -LOL

This is a newer, external controller and simulator. For the record I don't really sell these… Most don't want nor need a simulator. This setup is kind of big, and it allows me to drive a system out of whack, so that I can data log how it handles the recovery once the system is reset to run in automatic. No one really needs this type of operation unless they intend on development…

Cheers! -Piggy

[PigFish]

… a standard internal/external controller and enclosure.

[Skyfall]

Thanks for the complements my friend

I hear (read) the term 'set and forget' a lot Damn I wish I had coined it The term says it all.

I guess ultimately what set and forget means, is up to interpretation. I have said over and over again We all settle somewhere on something. Where you settle will be defined by your system. Regardless of whether you buy something or emulate another, there is no perfection to be found that is until you define for yourself a perfect climate. Perfect climate and acceptable climate are seen as the same thing to most cigar smokers. I don't see them that way, but I make humidors and I am picky about what I call facts verses what I call beliefs You know this already!

Over the last month or so I have been working with a couple of guys in Oz to engineer a system that you can buy in Oz That is not really the point but I got to talking about high humidity control with one of the guys and it got me to thinking about how people visualize what humidor control really is.

I post data logs all the time as most of you know, but for kicks I took my camera out to a humidor in my lab, set it to watch the controller, which I typical set up to float externally on the top of a humidor for testing and took a few minutes of footage.

I did this yesterday or the day before. On Isla Pigfish, it was about 70 to 73dF and 70 to 73rH depending on where you stood

While I watch humidors all the time, and I use only sensitive, high resolution equipment, I know that until one of my customers buys a system, they don't really understand what the hell I am talking about until they see it work. I translate a data log into images that reflect the data logs performance. I see precision humidors work everyday Hell, I have more than one!!! So for me a data log says it all I forget sometimes that most people don't have the images that I rely on, to pull the information on a data log into real life So here is some real life with set and forget as it is seen at my place!

I put this file in my Dropbox and here is a shared link to same. One day when I spend a little more time on videoing, I will probably start posting stuff to YouTube All in good time.

When I say set and forget this is what it means to me Cheers!

I will leave the link up a few days. To all that download and watch, it is about 100MB, enjoy.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/rbut2qecihz7yr9/2014-07-09%2021.19.54.mov

Damn Ray, I knew you've been working on some kick ass gear, but that's awesome!

Set and Forget to me means, energy efficient, but precise enough scope if measurement for consistently maintaining temps and RH, which I have dialed in, but mainly, I could forget about for months at a time, through weather and temp changes, and it's still holding steady with no worries, no stress and no bead recharging.