Ireland V Australia This Sat in the Rugby

[brian1]

looking forward to the match up. Grand Slam Ireland V Dodgy Aussie team. seems like a fair match.

Cmon Ireland

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjXO308_mKM

[El Presidente]

At least you have an Irish coach who when in the video he says "This is our ******* turf" ......he doesn't mean New Zealand.

Good luck to the Irish. I would love to see the wallabies lose 2 of the remaining games. See the end of the kiwi coach experiment, the end of whinging players (Gitteau), and the commencement of some permanent spring of genuine passion.

[Ken Gargett]

At least you have an Irish coach who when in the video he says "This is our ******* turf" ......he doesn't mean New Zealand.

Good luck to the Irish. I would love to see the wallabies lose 2 of the remaining games. See the end of the kiwi coach experiment, the end of whinging players (Gitteau), and the commencement of some permanent spring of genuine passion.

lose all three and deans and giteau are still going nowhere.

[El Presidente]

lose all three and deans and giteau are still going nowhere.

perhaps Ken...but constant failure will eventually be rewarded.

[Ken Gargett]

perhaps Ken...but constant failure will eventually be rewarded.

had a long chat with fordo yesterday. very interesting. his views not so far from ours.

as for constant failure and rewards, just think of the southerners who made the team when the reds were strong. hard to fail more consistently than blokes like knox and walker and they still got gold jerseys. palu? lord save us. how many years did that imposter sharpe get?

sadly, the more things change..,.

[ARRV]

had a long chat with fordo yesterday. very interesting. his views not so far from ours.

as for constant failure and rewards, just think of the southerners who made the team when the reds were strong. hard to fail more consistently than blokes like knox and walker and they still got gold jerseys. palu? lord save us. how many years did that imposter sharpe get?

sadly, the more things change..,.

I think Deans is a good coach. Whether or not he should be the national coach of Australia is probably another thing though. At least he is culling the dead wood - and is not scared to do so which may not be the case for other coaches who may have allegiances to play to.

But can't really see much value in Barnes - god only knows why he was even considered by Deans to be vice capt. I fear your predictions as to Barnes' injury plagued state - (state of mind) are entirely correct and he will root nsw rugby next year. Not a particularly difficult task mind you.

But the wallabies are still losing games to the all blacks et al in the forwards. In tokyo it was the lineout. In Wellington it was just a lack of heart. An outside back as a coach is hardly going to know much about forward play so probably Jim Williams and Nucifora (who I thought I saw in the stands at Twickenham) taking the reins there. maybe they are blooding Nucifora for coach after Deans. Not a bad option - he didn't pander to the players at the Brumbies adn got results there.

I just think that most of the older players play more or less for self interested reasons - haning on for the cash only. I still secretly blame Gregan for all this mess = he considered himself to be the consumate professional and basically banned emotion and passion from the dressing room. Rugby doesn't work that way. You need passion. you need people who want to suffer and incur immense physical pain for the greater good of the team. This requires passion and emotion - in my view anwyay. you want people who literally want to die for each other. You need good dedicated team players.

The old saying is so true - champion team beats a team of champions every time.

[Ken Gargett]

and now we have the 15th team in melbourne. what on earth are our administrators doing? we don't have the talent and cattle for 4 teams so, let's get another one. we are idiots and our rugby will continue to slide.

until we sort the grassroots, forget it. we need a stable, good club level comp. may be o'neill is a kiwi in disguise.

[bunburyist]

I thought the wallaby forwards acquited themselves quite well on Saturday. Albeit against one of the most dire England outfits in the last 20yrs....winning at Twickenham is never easy. Looks like you've finally got a front row as well.

No idea why you guys don't like Giteau - is he not your best player?

[Ken Gargett]

I thought the wallaby forwards acquited themselves quite well on Saturday. Albeit against one of the most dire England outfits in the last 20yrs....winning at Twickenham is never easy. Looks like you've finally got a front row as well.

No idea why you guys don't like Giteau - is he not your best player?

trust me, if we had looked even vaguely at the level of competency we expect, i'm sure you'd have heard. we were so dysmal in that first half, kept in it by genia and england being below par. a lot better in the 2nd though still some major problems and, and no disrespect here, if we were up against a decent team we'd have been flogged. twickenham not easy but it is expected.

no doubt giteau is talented - what would be ideal would be to combine him and jonny. together, they'd make one hell of a fly half. at the moment, each has skills but they are not the full package. jonny can organise, giteau can't - he is a brilliant individual but one of the reasons campo was such a superstar was that he could do his thing out on th wing and not stuff things up for others. giteau is expected to run the back line and he struggles with it (and we want him to be a brilliant individual). shame for jonny was that there was nothing to organise so he looked a bit lost and he had to try and do the individual thing himself. and as good as he is, he is not and never will be an attacking player like giteau. the concept of gits as captain is scary. at least deans avoided that. but he does have some ticker and will try till he can't give more - like jonny but unlike barnes. giteau always looked better when playing outside someone like larkham.

the front row has been solid for a while now. i thought we were more impressive last time we played you in that dept. unlike the embarassment of a few years ago. but the perception has long lingering. slowly being changed. but as the front row has improved, the line out has collapsed (i'm almost afraid that perhaps it was an area that peaheart sharpe was better at than we gave him credit and we miss vickerman).

think a win against ireland would be a big upset.

be interested how your blokes go against argentina.

[bunburyist]

aye - is difficult for you guys to take much out of that game as England had virtually an entire squad out injured so it was a real patched up team. No excuse for playing as badly as they did though.

I may be alone amongst Englishmen in that.....I just don't think JW is that good. Best kicker the world has ever seen for sure, and puts his body on the line every time, but he's only effective behind a dominant pack whilst playing the kicking game. Either kick for touch, kick for space, or kick cross-field to the winger..zzzzzzzzzz. I'm a traditionalist in that your fly-half has to be creative. Creativity doesn't always win games though, a la Carlos Spencer.

It's amazing how back lines work, the balance is almost a cliche but you have to have it. For every Spencer or Giteau, you need a Bunce, Tindall or Mortlock.

Pretty sure England will spank Argentina. Too much gas out wide for them.

Just reminded me - what a star Genia is going to be, great player.

I think Ireland-Oz will be something like a 20-10 affair, but should be an open game, with any luck.

[Ken Gargett]

aye - is difficult for you guys to take much out of that game as England had virtually an entire squad out injured so it was a real patched up team. No excuse for playing as badly as they did though.

I may be alone amongst Englishmen in that.....I just don't think JW is that good. Best kicker the world has ever seen for sure, and puts his body on the line every time, but he's only effective behind a dominant pack whilst playing the kicking game. Either kick for touch, kick for space, or kick cross-field to the winger..zzzzzzzzzz. I'm a traditionalist in that your fly-half has to be creative. Creativity doesn't always win games though, a la Carlos Spencer.

It's amazing how back lines work, the balance is almost a cliche but you have to have it. For every Spencer or Giteau, you need a Bunce, Tindall or Mortlock.

Pretty sure England will spank Argentina. Too much gas out wide for them.

Just reminded me - what a star Genia is going to be, great player.

I think Ireland-Oz will be something like a 20-10 affair, but should be an open game, with any luck.

i pretty much agree with all that. with one small caveat - stunned that the commentators mentioned jonny's % success rate with kicks only in the 70s. can that be right? i'm not sure i ever saw anyone better in rugby than ollie campbell. stuffed us. if that is true re 70s, leaves him well short of kickers like hazem el masri and andrew johns - and they could kick under pressure. advantage they had for success rates was that as league is only two point penalties, difficult and long ones rarely tried. disadvantage was that also means they don't get to kick ones from sometimes dead in front that they could spit over. but on any measure, jonny is up there.

you probably didn't se a lot of hazem but he was a machine. amazing.

[Ken Gargett]

i pretty much agree with all that. with one small caveat - stunned that the commentators mentioned jonny's % success rate with kicks only in the 70s. can that be right? i'm not sure i ever saw anyone better in rugby than ollie campbell. stuffed us. if that is true re 70s, leaves him well short of kickers like hazem el masri and andrew johns - and they could kick under pressure. advantage they had for success rates was that as league is only two point penalties, difficult and long ones rarely tried. disadvantage was that also means they don't get to kick ones from sometimes dead in front that they could spit over. but on any measure, jonny is up there.

you probably didn't se a lot of hazem but he was a machine. amazing.

i guess one should mention carter - a wonderful mix of kicking ability, organisational skills and individual flair when needed.

[ARRV]

i guess one should mention carter - a wonderful mix of kicking ability, organisational skills and individual flair when needed.

Carter probably has the most complete game at the moment - he can do it all (incuding 2 backpackers at once apparently)

I felt sick in that first half when JW kicked the field goal - a darkening sense of de ja vu.

[Ken Gargett]

Carter probably has the most complete game at the moment - he can do it all (incuding 2 backpackers at once apparently)

I felt sick in that first half when JW kicked the field goal - a darkening sense of de ja vu.

yes, there was much bad language at my place as well.

[bunburyist]

Wilkinson's career average is over 80%, but as you say - a bigger than normal share of those kicks were from the 50m range. Perhaps they were talking about test matches, or matches against Australia...? Not sure, but from 2000-2003...he pretty much never missed. A penalty in you own half against England basically meant you lost 3pts. Bit like how Morne Steyn is shaping up for the boks.

This Carter pen is one of my favourites:

[frenchkiwi]

and now we have the 15th team in melbourne. what on earth are our administrators doing? we don't have the talent and cattle for 4 teams so, let's get another one. we are idiots and our rugby will continue to slide.

until we sort the grassroots, forget it. we need a stable, good club level comp. may be o'neill is a kiwi in disguise.

No way he is as aussie as they come.

He is in 3rd in a long line of Aussie Corporates Shafting Sport for Profit and aspiring to go higher.

(1st Place - Murdoch, 2nd Place - Packer RIP)

The australian sport ethic is Win even if it means tearing off your competitors arm and using it to give yourself an extra length closer to the finish line. That's exactly what O'Neill Murdoch and co do, but winning for them is Profit, not culture, tradition, or good sport ;-)

I saw Eng v Oz highlights and England def looked like a patched up team because their defence was woeful at times - giving the aussies easy quick ball without competing for it and missing first up tackles. But then again, Aussie back line was patched up too with a new midfield etc. The Wallabies will be a weakened team until Barnes - who is their best backline player - and Mortlock come back to steady the ship. I still think they are playing well considering the individuals making up the team at the moment!!

Ireland... who knows after such a long layoff? They have the goods to win but could struggle with the southern hem speed to breakdown and their own tendency to beat themselves - and the aussies are playing well as a team at the mo just with weaker individuals.

[brian1]

Wow, That is some kick, never seen anything like that. Bend it like Carter!

Wilkinson's career average is over 80%, but as you say - a bigger than normal share of those kicks were from the 50m range. Perhaps they were talking about test matches, or matches against Australia...? Not sure, but from 2000-2003...he pretty much never missed. A penalty in you own half against England basically meant you lost 3pts. Bit like how Morne Steyn is shaping up for the boks.

This Carter pen is one of my favourites:

[Ken Gargett]

Wilkinson's career average is over 80%, but as you say - a bigger than normal share of those kicks were from the 50m range. Perhaps they were talking about test matches, or matches against Australia...? Not sure, but from 2000-2003...he pretty much never missed. A penalty in you own half against England basically meant you lost 3pts. Bit like how Morne Steyn is shaping up for the boks.

that makes far more sense. i could not believe 70s. indeed, a penalty against england was an automatic 3 points if you were within cooee.

extraordinary kick by carter. the bloke playing now who bends kicks - not quite in that fashion - as much as one could imagine, is thurston from the aussie league team. not quite in the class of jonny or carter tho getting much better of late, you'd swear he's missed by 10 metres at times then around they come.

[Ken Gargett]

No way he is as aussie as they come.

He is in 3rd in a long line of Aussie Corporates Shafting Sport for Profit and aspiring to go higher.

(1st Place - Murdoch, 2nd Place - Packer RIP)

The australian sport ethic is Win even if it means tearing off your competitors arm and using it to give yourself an extra length closer to the finish line. That's exactly what O'Neill Murdoch and co do, but winning for them is Profit, not culture, tradition, or good sport ;-)

i really do not want to get into another contentious thread and i know rob wll be thinking 'please, just leave it' and banging on about high moral roads or whatever but i must say that when i read this, i had to check the date. thought it must be april 1.

in the first place, o'neill is a sports administrator and the others businessmen. very different animals. and i am the first to admit that i was completely wrong about packer. thought what he did with cricket back in the late 70s was disgraceful but in retrospect, i could not have been more wrong. i suspect he saved cricket with what he did. he also, i believe, was responsible for 20/20 taking so long to get off the ground here. he hated the stuff and so it was not promoted here. what a good thing. he has also provided huge support to league in australia, helping to make it so popular in nsw and qld.

but to put up this so called sports ethic as though it is an aussie thing only is completely wrong, especially coming from new zealand.

i know it is all the fashion in nz to hate o'neill and that much of this stems from nz being booted from co-hosting the 03 world cup but it really is the greatest revision of history since rob last explained a night out to his wife.

nz, in their own sordid attempt to maximise profits contrary to assurances they had given, suddenly started claiming they were held hostage by sponsors and nothing they could do - it was an underhanded attempt to try and have their cake and eat it - sporting brinksmanship, if you like - and it backfired massively. the IRB, not us, not o'neill, stripped nz of the rights (and that may well have cost them the cup itself as the wallabies beating nz in the semi was a huge upset but would have been even bigger had the game been at eden park which it would have been if nz admin didn't try a swifty). i spoke to a lot of kiwi rugby fans around then and almost all, not quite all but a very strong majority, blamed their own admin. with time, it has become much easier to slip into that old kiwi hobby of blaming aussies for all your woes. it is absolute rubbish (i think i am banned from using the word 'crap', but if i wasn't...). o'neill and the aru even offered the kiwis $10mill to help support them run it without the contentious sponsorship but it was easier to try for the lot and then play the wounded martyr.

there were also some pretty sordid allegations re the securing of the 2011 world cup - i doubt we'll ever know if much to them but if indeed there was anything to them (and i have no idea), then it would make most other nations look like kids up against experts in sports hypocrisy.

and please, what nation had no problem playing sport against south africa during the apartheid ban? good old nz. talk about utterly foregoing any pretence to decency, tradition, sportsmanship in the face of a chance of a profit. they might have been called the cavaliers or whatever but it was the entire all black team, bar two i think (kirk and ?). and so appalled were the nz administrators that absolutely bugger all happened. nice way of paying your players under the table during amateur days.

sports administrators are paid to do what they can for their team - o'neill has usually been extremely good at it - but any suggestion that the aussies alone have an attitude of profit ahead of culture and sportsmanship is ridiculous (and i mean that in the nicest, most non-offensive manner i can).

The Wallabies will be a weakened team until Barnes - who is their best backline player - and Mortlock come back to steady the ship.

don't think we'll ever see mortlock again. was terrific but at the end of his career and as he is almost no chance for 2011, will fade off to super 14 (or 15) and/or japan.

barnes is soft, no spine, hugely overrated. a super 14 game this year at home for the reds, where we were in a position to come home with a big upset, he had no clue how to run the team, what to do. no composure at all. panicked. out of his depth. i have no problem if he never plays again.

[brian1]

Ken,

I have watched that carter kick numerous times now and its clearly a miscue that fluked it over. Notice how he he snatches at the kick. Also it does not look very windy on the pitch so there would be no reason to try a Beckham on it.

that makes far more sense. i could not believe 70s. indeed, a penalty against england was an automatic 3 points if you were within cooee.

extraordinary kick by carter. the bloke playing now who bends kicks - not quite in that fashion - as much as one could imagine, is thurston from the aussie league team. not quite in the class of jonny or carter tho getting much better of late, you'd swear he's missed by 10 metres at times then around they come.

[Ken Gargett]

Ken,

I have watched that carter kick numerous times now and its clearly a miscue that fluked it over. Notice how he he snatches at the kick. Also it does not look very windy on the pitch so there would be no reason to try a Beckham on it.

sorry - meant extraordinary in the sense that it clearly is a miskick - from that angle, he should have been trying to bend it the other way, unless a massive wind, which as you say, doesn't appear to be there.

[frenchkiwi]

but to put up this so called sports ethic as though it is an aussie thing only is completely wrong, especially coming from new zealand.

tongue in cheek mate, (i will put more in next time) the corporates are out the world over trying to make a buck out of sport. EG Sky pushing for longer and longer trinations and super 12 sorry 14 sorry 15. (i agree with the Sth Afs provincial tribalism and tradition is the future for both commercial and sporting purposes - not gimmicky mascot mercenary teams.) the aussie ones are just better at it

i know it is all the fashion in nz to hate o'neill and that much of this stems from nz being booted from co-hosting the 03 world cup

nah that was our union's incompetence. But i don't like O'Neills haircut or his need to be in the media with some ridiculou$ plan for the future of the sport every day. and he toes the corporate line over passion for the sport which is his job but need not be an excuse for disliking him or the short-sighted Pro Sport culture which has got us to this point!!

The Wallabies will be a weakened team until Barnes - who is their best backline player - and Mortlock come back to steady the ship.

don't think we'll ever see mortlock again. was terrific but at the end of his career and as he is almost no chance for 2011, will fade off to super 14 (or 15) and/or japan.

barnes is soft, no spine, hugely overrated. a super 14 game this year at home for the reds, where we were in a position to come home with a big upset, he had no clue how to run the team, what to do. no composure at all. panicked. out of his depth. i have no problem if he never plays again.

You're a hard man Ken - Barnes impressed me he has more tactical sense than the Git - but because of that he keeps getting chucked into 10 (that was the plan for the last Aus v NZ test until he got injured) and that is a position switch that will take years to learn. Reds were so impressed that they made him captain, no10, and i thought they were gonna make him hooker and coach as well. He is a great 12 full stop. ABs only seem to be realising now - after years of failed experiments - that you don't play players out of position, regardless of how good they are... you just get disappointment.

I love to watch Mortlock but he needs a body transplant for the sake of australian rugby. Should be enough $$ now they've dumped tuqiri - there's a thought they could requisition his body under the contract and transplant mortlocks head.

[Ken Gargett]

You're a hard man Ken - Barnes impressed me he has more tactical sense than the Git - but because of that he keeps getting chucked into 10 (that was the plan for the last Aus v NZ test until he got injured) and that is a position switch that will take years to learn. Reds were so impressed that they made him captain, no10, and i thought they were gonna make him hooker and coach as well. He is a great 12 full stop. ABs only seem to be realising now - after years of failed experiments - that you don't play players out of position, regardless of how good they are... you just get disappointment.

I love to watch Mortlock but he needs a body transplant for the sake of australian rugby. Should be enough $$ now they've dumped tuqiri - there's a thought they could requisition his body under the contract and transplant mortlocks head.

you are completely correct re barnes more tactical sense than gits but the goalposts have more tactical sense than gits.

barnes is actually originally a fly half that got shuffled out to in centre as others in line before him but if he returns to the wallabies i believe it would be best if he played fly half (i'm pretty certain that at school - he was well known here from a very young age as an exceptional rugby player, league player and cricketer - he was a 5/8 come half back). it helps free up giteau. and takes giteau away from that role.

reds made him captain only when horwill was out injured and, as deeply as i love the reds and they can usually do no wrong (bar appoint a hated nsw player as coach), they had no choice. there was simply no other option. it was barnes or quade cooper and spare us from that. when 20 year old kids are your veterans and senior players, you know it will be a long season.

the sort of bloke barnes is - walked out on the reds after giving his word to fans, the admin and other players. has signed up for only a year with nsw as he will (and please quote me back if it doesn't happen) also walk out on them after a year and go to melbourne. the bloke could not spell loyalty or integrity.

wayne bennett has long believed he has league in his blood and that he will return to the broncos. can't see it but provided he stays out of qld, don't care. at least league taught him to tackle.

re mortlock, could not agree more. will be greatly missed.

[bunburyist]

sorry - meant extraordinary in the sense that it clearly is a miskick - from that angle, he should have been trying to bend it the other way, unless a massive wind, which as you say, doesn't appear to be there.

plus the biggest give away is the ball itself - position to swerve in from left to right, as he would being a left-pegger. If it was me, I'd say I meant it...

[PADDYWHACK121272]

O'Driscolls 100th test cap - and as hungry as ever...can't wait...may the best team win and all that...