bassman Posted October 4, 2009 Posted October 4, 2009 I wonder what percentage of these $1000 bottles of wine are actually drunk verses just held for resale down the road?
Ken Gargett Posted October 4, 2009 Posted October 4, 2009 I wonder what percentage of these $1000 bottles of wine are actually drunk verses just held for resale down the road? i think you'd be surprised, at least with burgundy and bordeaux. burgundy lovers tend to be fanatics who really love the stuff - understandably. they want to experience these wines. and with bordeaux, production of most of the first growths, where you get the big buck wines, is around 20,000 cases, give or take. that has to be way too many for people to be purely investing. that said, of course quite a lot are investments.
Guest rob Posted October 4, 2009 Posted October 4, 2009 You know what's funny... if I was having a party and invited you all to it... cocktail waitresses walking the room with platters of assorted cigars for you all to take... I'm pretty damn confident that even you guys saying they are obscene would take one of these Cohibas if they were on offer. Even if your favourite, ever reliable smoke was there along side it... you would reach for the Cohiba because of what it is. You may argue that you are taking one just to try it - but why would you delve into the unknown (and possible disappointment)... especially when a cigar you know to be reliable and tasty rests just 2 inches away?
Ken Gargett Posted October 4, 2009 Posted October 4, 2009 If I may add, many reputable wine producers will not release their top wines in a sub par year. They'll often use the best grapes of sucha vineyard for one of their "lower tier" wines. For me, this is another sign of how they view their product, of their thoughts on quality. As mentioned, prices often increase due to high demand on a relatively small supply, but in the case of top houses, we can be fairly confident of quality of the product. At this point in time, I would not have the same confidence in a top dollar "top tier" Havana cigar. Some have done a "barrel tasting" of the C GR - I'm interested in a tasting of the final production product. true re the wineries to a certain extent. they talk about doing it a lot more than they actually do it. in past years, many didn't have these 2nd tier wines so it was all or nothing. bringing them in, and in some cases, 3rd tier, has allowed them to keep tiny amounts of fruit that they can put through as the top wines. also, a lot depends on if it is a single vineyard or a blend of grapes or vineyards. much easier fior the latter to find something. grange is widely blended and so has never missed a vintage in nearly 60 years, even when the winemaker was told to stop making it. the other critical factor is if the style of wine is one very much dependent on conditions (at least more so than usual). hence, you'll usually see a sauternes producer - dependent on botrytis, miss more vintages than say a first growth red bordeaux. and hen you have champagne and vintage port, both small %s of their respective production but very much dependent on conditions, though vineyard and winemaking expertise means we are seeing more and more declared vintages for both. and with climate change, possibly even more from champagne, at least for a while.
El Presidente Posted October 4, 2009 Author Posted October 4, 2009 You know what's funny... if I was having a party and invited you all to it... cocktail waitresses walking the room with platters of assorted cigars for you all to take... I'm pretty damn confident that even you guys saying they are obscene would take one of these Cohibas if they were on offer. i would take two
Colt45 Posted October 5, 2009 Posted October 5, 2009 true re the wineries to a certain extent........ I guess for me the wine analogies in this instance are mainly about faith - Domaine De La Romanee-Conti, Ferrari, Habanos S.A...... And I'm truly not knocking the concept or producer - it's topic for conversation.
PigFish Posted October 5, 2009 Posted October 5, 2009 i would take two So would Ray!!! Mrs. Piggy did not raise stupid children!!! Many of us want to try the cigar, I freely admit it. I want them to be good... they should be for a hundred smackers! I think that most of us who are not willing to spend the money just can't rationalize the money spend based on what we already know. Our wisdom either keeps us from getting burned or from experiencing a really nice cigar; at $100 a stick, I believe there is no in between. I don't really think that there is a Habanos smoker out there who is going to turn it down for free. Even those who don't normally indulge in the S-6 are likely willing to spend (some) money on the product, it is just a matter of how much. The real S-6 lover has got a dilemma on his hands. I don't because I can't easily afford $100/stick cigars today, large ring cigars are not my forte, my favorite Cohibas are Lanceros and CE's, and they would simply have to be the best cigars that I have ever tasted to rationalize the purchase. I am betting then that they will not be in the top 1 percent of the cigars that I have smoked. I am also stating that they must have a high probability of being in that 1% to get me to spend the money... when I have it to spend. I am a cigar lover! If money was no object I would buy some just to try them and to give some to friends, true enthusiasts that for whatever the reason did not have the opportunity. I have always gifted a lot of cigars, many of you do the same and understand the delight in it. Lastly I rationalize cigar taste vs. price again on a Gaussian curve. The best cigar that I ever tasted was only marginally better than number two, if at all. I don't believe that there is a quantum leap awaiting me in any of my next cigars. In other words a great cigar can only be so great. There is no cigar in my experience that has been worth $100. Some of the experiences were worth $100, but that was the price of admission. Those costs, those admissions are the ones that give one the education and wisdom to make $100/cigar decisions, right or wrong!
Ken Gargett Posted October 5, 2009 Posted October 5, 2009 I guess for me the wine analogies in this instance are mainly about faith - Domaine De La Romanee-Conti, Ferrari, Habanos S.A...... And I'm truly not knocking the concept or producer - it's topic for conversation. as for DRC, to my knowledge, the last time they didn't release one of their wines was the montrachet - i think 2002, but it was a great vintage (the reason was that apparently a cellar hand made an incredibly expensive msitake and stuffed it). before that it would be mid 40's when they finally conceded defeat to phylloxera and replanted the romanee-conti vineyard, so there were a few years when nothing was produced till the vines regrew.
jeromeroselli Posted October 5, 2009 Posted October 5, 2009 For those who just don't want to fork out the dough for an entire cigar... We could sell shares of the cigar. Someone smokes the first third, another the 2nd, etc.
bunburyist Posted October 5, 2009 Posted October 5, 2009 fickle as I am...I might be changing my mind. I'd buy one, for the hell of it. two would be better though, to share with someone else. Sadly most of my friends are slack jawed inbred knuckle draggers, so I might struggle.
sje Posted October 8, 2009 Posted October 8, 2009 Ladies and Gents, if my information is correct we may need to revisit this debate, i am told cigars will be approx 150 to 180 AUD per stick retail in AU, at these rates they need to be as good or better than Cuban Davidoffs or Dunhills from the 80s. am i tempted (hell yes) are they 3 or 4 times better than the current Premiums (highly unlikely) spiro
Guest rob Posted October 8, 2009 Posted October 8, 2009 I'm only guessing with the numbers... but I'm figuring about 1/3 of that cost is tax. Geez, the government have it good.
dicko Posted October 10, 2009 Posted October 10, 2009 I'm only guessing with the numbers... but I'm figuring about 1/3 of that cost is tax. Geez, the government have it good. one hand in our pockets, one hand on their d****. still, I'm sure an appropriate proportion (i.e. not much at all) of revenue raised will be used to help the community at large combat the ills of cigar smoking... regards the cigar, if I had the money; hell yeah I would buy a box. i would buy some Grange while I was at it. There isn't a perfect correlation between quality and price... you pay a premium for that extra point or two or three out of a hundred. It's hard to put a price on that but an extra $100 per stick is not viable for the bloke on an average wage
MontrealRon Posted October 10, 2009 Posted October 10, 2009 If the blend is the same as the Havana examples I have no problem on price. The finest cigars I have had this decade were Dunhill Cabinetta's. That was until the Cohiba Gran Reserva. I paid $150 for my last Dunhill Cabinetta as a single. Trust me, I don't do that everyday.There are $10 wines, $30 dollar wines, $70 dollar wines, $300 wines and $3000 wines. People choose what they can afford and occasionally may buy a great bottle for a special occasion. I can't see any difference here. HSA never made a secret that these were going to be anything but super expensive but perhaps the best ever made. News reported from Havana was $100 a cigar in Feb. I am lost as to why people are shooting them now. I get pissed when they hide pricing to the last minute (09 LE's) and then throw a 50% premium on a shorter Belicoso which is not as good as its cheaper larger brethren. That makes my blood boil. I will be angry if this general release is not the 99/100 point cigar I had previously. If it is as good (99/100) then really...I just couldn't care what they charged. I will only have one every six months to a year anyway but would look forward to the ultimate treat. I wouldn't be too concerned that these will not sell. Every dealer in the world has a list a mile long for them. A lot of that comes just from those who went to the Habanos Festival (1400 cigar enthusiasts) who put their name down for a box after trying them. I don't know anyone who didin't. Genuine excellence should be applauded. Crap dressed as excellence should be publically stoned. Exactly! Kudos to HSA for coming out with a product that will quickly sell out, at a high price, and that the purchasers will not regret having bought. Success will surely bring repetition, and I'm looking forward to the Lanceros Gran Reservas, with 2005 tobacco, to be released in 2011!! Lord knows Cuba can use the hard currency. Even if the tobacco industry workers do not see any of this money directly, it still benefits the national economy, so all Cubans lives can be improved. Cuba has the right to make the most out of what little they have. After all, they even sold out the Behikes. More power to them. The wine analogy is right on. The Bordeaux first growths sell enormous quantities of wine every year, at $300+/bottle. There are always buyers, somewhere in the world, who can afford, and want them. Are the "worth" the price? Angelo Gaja, a top wine producer in Piedmont, was once asked why he charged so much for his (very expensive!) wines. His answer, more or less, was "Why don't you ask my customers why they are willing to pay so much?" As a wine lover of limited means, I know that there are many great bottles that I can never afford. So what. There are also many others at very reasonable prices, that give me great pleasure. I do not begrudge the Cubans from charging whatever the market will bear. What burns me is the horrendous taxes on cigars inflicted on us in many so-called civilized countries! (my own being probably the worst offender). Meanwhile, no sleep lost for me on these Siglo VI GR. I will never, ever, buy any 52 gauge cigar. 'nuff said!
MontrealRon Posted October 11, 2009 Posted October 11, 2009 "Rich fools" might be harsh. True, but harsh.I guess my point is, that if people generally refused to pay these exorbitant prices for what it costs HSA 50 cents or less to produce, HSA would get the message. But so long as these items sell at the prices asked those of us who want to buy Cuban cigars at reasonable rates will suffer from the inflation. That, plus the fact that the farmers and rollers get nada from the obscene profits just pisses me off. Those of us who want to, or can only afford to, buy Cuban cigars at reasonable rates still have plenty of choice. I love my '04 Quintero Brevas! I will never buy a Ferrari, either, but so what... When Cuba is low on foreign exchange - like now - everyone suffers. Anything extra that the tobacco industry can bring in benefits all. And, in socialist theory, if not always in practice, why should a tobacco grower be better paid than another farmer growing, say, bananas? Why should a torcedor earn more than a truck driver?
compitaveggie Posted October 13, 2009 Posted October 13, 2009 Any updates? Suckling is in Havana right now and said they have them in stores. Jose
tigger Posted October 14, 2009 Posted October 14, 2009 It seems that at least one European shop has them. Waiting to hear from Rob and the gang about availability...
Yoruba Hacker Posted October 14, 2009 Posted October 14, 2009 It seems that at least one European shop has them. At preposterously high prices (for Americans). Even the crazy among us have their limits.
aavkk Posted October 14, 2009 Posted October 14, 2009 very well said MontrealRon, I agree with just about everything you have said regarding the release price.
brian1 Posted October 14, 2009 Posted October 14, 2009 1200GBP or 1900USD..thanks HSA, nice F-U to your loyal customers. Will be interesting to see what Prez has to say on pricing for AUD region. I am sure it will be just as bad. Will also be very interesting to see how the market reacts at these insane prices. There out!
paesano Posted October 14, 2009 Posted October 14, 2009 WOW am I late to the dance or what? I would be in depending on the price. Is that confirmed on the 1900? WTF happened to the $70?
SethG Posted October 14, 2009 Posted October 14, 2009 1200GBP or 1900USD..thanks HSA, nice F-U to your loyal customers. Will be interesting to see what Prez has to say on pricing for AUD region. I am sure it will be just as bad. Will also be very interesting to see how the market reacts at these insane prices. **** that, there's no way I'd pay that much when the book humidors etc... were cheaper for 20 sticks. And at 1,000 boxes. That must be VAT inclusive or something.
El Presidente Posted October 14, 2009 Author Posted October 14, 2009 I hope to have our pricing and stock confirmation later today....but it has been awfully quiet from PCC in relation to information on the Gran Reservas When in Havana February at the launch of the Gran Reserva the price was widely reported to be around $100 USD a cigar so there shouldn't be too much surprise now. I suspect the decreasing GPB and USD since that time probably hasn't helped much. We will see what the final pricing will be. For us it is a simple formulae of cost x a sensible margin.
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