Guest rob Posted July 28, 2009 Posted July 28, 2009 The San Cristobal thread got me thinking about blending... and as such I now have a few questions that will hopefully spark some discussion. The fact that we talk about some brands not being as good as they were indicates that something along the way has changed... unless they have changed the actual blended raw components. How does a brand stay true to it's profile and heritage when the raw materials that go into making it change every season? There are climatic differences, differences in crop quality, differences in soil conditions.... the list goes on. When considering climatic differences, for a brand to become a shadow of it's former self while others brands are still great, consistent or improving would indicate an actual change to the prescribed blend. From what I understand - they apply a predetermined and known 'recipe' and say something along the lines of: "Rollers, today we're making Dalia's... roll these cigars with 2 ligero leaves from box a, 3 leaves from box b and apply a wrapper from box c" Being that this is the case - how do they try and maintain the brand's profile so that it remains true and hopefully consistent? Are the raw materials sourced from the same plantations every crop such that the crop is grown with the knowledge of what cigar it will ultimately be used in? With all things being equal, for a brand to slip, I'm thinking there has to have been changes... or the blend originally prescribed has to have been altered. Thoughts? Discussion?
Colt45 Posted July 28, 2009 Posted July 28, 2009 Rob, I agree that it's hard to expect perfect blend consistency given the constant fluctations in climate, etc - not to mention that the actual strain of tobacco being planted changes every few years as well. But I do think it's reasonable for us to expect to be able to differentiate a Bolivar from a Partagas from a Montecristo etc. And I also think it not totally unreasonable that each size within a marque maintain a certain identity. So, I think (but do not know) that yes, some blends were probably changed intentionally, and others more than likely simply allowed to slip away from their initial profiles. In theory, there is quite a bit of tobacco, from various areas and farms, from which to choose in order to maintain blends and marque character. It's been pointed out to me here in the past, for example, that ligero from one area might not have the same characteristics as ligero from another. These are the types of things that can be used to help maintain consistency. Whether or not that is put into practice across the board and at all times I do not know, but tend to doubt. It sounds like a difficult job, and perhaps overwhelming at times, but I've no doubt that there are people within the organization that have the drive, passion, and ability to see to these things - if they are allowed to do so. Here's a link to a thread on how a new cigar comes to be: Link
OZCUBAN Posted July 28, 2009 Posted July 28, 2009 Well said Colt I agree with all of the above ,In a way a bit like wines as in same grape, different local I guess it makes the Master Blenders job that much harder especially when they are try to keep and maintain the characteristics of a certain marque,but i have no doubt that there are individuals out there in both the Cuban and Non-Cuban cigar Houses that are extremely talented and good at what they do,lets just hope that these skills are pass on to the new generation Cheers Oz
El Presidente Posted July 29, 2009 Posted July 29, 2009 Rob, Blending is never spoken about in Cuba outside of Tabacuba and within Tabacuba it is the equivalent of "The Holy Grail". You are talking about a state secret and few people know. Over the years the only information I have gleamed is from 5am debauchery with those who are involved. Like everything Cuban, take it with a pinch of salt and I don't mean that to be disrespectful. I am going to be loose with the numbers so forgive me. 1800 fincas grow tobacco. Each regional area has a central classifying and storage area (heading that way but not quite complete). Post fermentation and clasification the tobacco is baled and tagged (date, region, finca for major ones, district as a minimum ie San Luis, and tobacco type). It is held outside Havana in the storage facilities and called as required. Wrapper 12 months Binder....no idea Volado...12 months Seco......18 months Ligero.... 30 months. The leaf to the factories is distributed by Tabacuba. There is production planning in the factories where so many cigars of differet Marques and vitolas need to be made. So you are the blender at El Habanero making SLR DC. You have to orchestrate the making of 16200 cigars over one week. Your name is Domingo, you are 68 years of age and you have been a blender for 9 years. You took over from Paco who did the job for 15 years but retired at the age of 75. Now Domingo understands the blending of all the cigars El Habanero makes. His role is to maintain the blend (as best he can) with the leaf available. He has been blending SLR DC since 2001. Paco use to roll older SLR DC but they were discontinued for quite a while (before Domingo took over) but still over a glass of rum they use to practice even when there were no Tabacuba orders. Domingo has 18 rollers capable of making the DC. 180 cigars a day per person, 5 days. He arrives at work on a Friday and sets out the tobacco proportions for the slr Serie A his unit has been working on. His mond at 11am turns to the SLR DC (production does not start until the following Monday) and he sets to play with the tobacco which has already arrived. He rolls a bunch of Ligero (San Martinez district as always) with wrapper from Pancho Cuba's finca and a mix of Seco and Volado from San Luis. With the Saint Luis Rey DC, production is so small that they can call on specific wrapper. Domingo's prime consideration is body of the cigar. It should be medium/ medium/ light, "Suave". He has the benefit of using some seriously premium tobacco but he has found that the normal one leaf of Ligero he is using is not cutting it? The cigar is too light! He rolls two cigars of Ligero and a loose wrapper only and calls Miguel the manager over. "El Ligero es flaco" says Domingo. "Si....un poco flaco" says Miguel. Domingo then puts an extra half leaf of Ligero or a full leaf in the blend.....and tries again. Close enough! He calls over one of his favourite rollers and has rolled (properly) 5 SLR DC. They try again, make what adjustments are necessary and make note of the blend for Monday dispersal to the rollers. Domingo is not a farmer. He is a blender using the best resources he has (on the day) to be as true to the blend as he can possibly be. He has little idea of the crop conditions of the period from which the tobacco was taken (up to three years ago). When he looked at the production schedule for the upcoming month he and the manager of the factory sat down and ordered what they required. They new the ideal blend (and the tobacco from where) including ideal wrapper etc. However in a communist country it is not always easy. Quota outweighs quality/integrity. Domingo is a proud man. He does the best with what is available and what is given. He is carrier of the flame. However he has good weeks and bad like all of us.
Colt45 Posted July 29, 2009 Posted July 29, 2009 Perhaps a bit off track, but..... Question: A new Cuban cigar company comes into being. They are relatively small, but well structured. They have their own farm where they grow their own tobacco. They produce one brand - for conversations sake, call it Ayala. They produce great cigars in a few select sizes with quality the highest goal. So, to the question: over the coarse of time, with the yearly fluctuations in crop, climate, etc, would you rather they chase after "blend consistency", even call it "house style", or would you prefer they make the best use of materials at hand, even though flavor profile may change some from harvest to harvest? I ask because in thinking about this topic, I tried to equate it with wine. In some ways I think it does, in many, not so much. For instance, in Bordeaux, in some years the merlot might be better than the cabernet or vice versa. A good producer will make best use of the grapes available. Or in Burgundy or Montalcino, in tough years, a good producer will make the best wine possible with the grapes they have. The wines might be different in style than the previous year(s), but good on their own merits nonetheless. To give an answer to my own question, I think I'd be very interested to see how the new company would do simply making best use of their tobacco, as they saw fit.
Ginseng Posted July 29, 2009 Posted July 29, 2009 To continue the wine analogy, perhaps the Bordeaux example would not be the most apt if blend consistency is of great importance. I would think the solera method might be more suitable. But then, in choosing the approach, you would also have to think about which smoker you will cater to. Those who are most skilled and discriminating and can tease out the common vegas elements even through the natural variation, or the middle-cut smoker who appreciates a particular profile in the broadest of senses. Wilkey
El Presidente Posted July 29, 2009 Posted July 29, 2009 Hypothetically. "Maximus Robusto Ayala" knows full well that no matter how good his finca, his personnel, his finances that he requires a store of quality tobacco to achieve his aim of one of the great boutique cigar brands of the world. His blend is Medium full, rich, buttery, pepper bite through the nose with honey, hay and coffee nuances. Maximus has been blackbanned by the evil empire from utilizing established harvesting, storage, rolling and shipping resources so he strikes out on his own with will financed partners and purchases everything he needs in terms of physical hardware and labour. The problem Maximus has is that the market will not accept a great cigar in 2012 and a variable cigar(different flavour profile) in 2013. Maximus calls in his war cabinet early at inception (Hamlet the great, Jose the gentle, Ken the grub) and determines that he needs 5 years supply of tobacco (great) to even out the highs and lows. Thankfully, Enrico the screwed and Pablo the impoverished also have finca's and have sold under the table for years and through a JV and copious bottles of rum they agree to throw in their future with maximus who sports the best gold tooth in the world and the venture begins. Never succumb to mediocrity is the mantle. Better a year without release than a year where release diminishes reputation. Maximus has cast the dice and lives rich or dies broke and living with Ken the grub.
Vinny Posted July 29, 2009 Posted July 29, 2009 Well, I won’t be a good help about tobacco, but concerning wines there are a couple of things that would give the wine it’s particular taste or components. It is a very interesting thing to taste 2 or 3 same wines but from 2 different years. A good exemple is the Chablis from 2005, 2006 and 2007. In 2005 (warm year with just exactly what they needed of rain) you will find a very rich and complex wine in which you’ll find all the caracteristics of the Chablis soil (primary aroma). Will be a great vintage. In 2006 (normal year, not too warm, not too cold, normal rain) you will have a very good wine, but which will lax complexity. Still a very representative wine when it comes to burgundy’s chardonnay, but not the same structure than the 2005. Will be a good vintage too, just need to taste it more often than the 2005 to check if still on the good side. In 2007 (lots lots of rain), now that will hurt. A very sour wine totally unbalanced and lacking mineral notes. My point is that even if you have a great soil, a great grape variety (or leafs) and a great wine maker (or blender) you will always be influenced (mostly) by the elements. Then you can try to get close to your standards of quality (change the structure in wine, balance beetween sugar and bitterness etc by influencing on the fermentations etc…) but you won’t be able to dominate what the sky and the earth gave you. So yes they can influence the blend and try to get close to it, but every year will have their own particularities and as for me, I find this very amazing. And that is someting Rob (and everybody) can confirm when he is smoking young cigars from 2008, 2009 and telling us that f.ex the mag 46 are coming back in great shape. Why ? Don’t know but maybe they figured out a way to match it with the actual leafs. Maybe Ken will help with the comparison. Very interesting post indeed !
Guest rob Posted July 30, 2009 Posted July 30, 2009 Thanks for the replies fellas. Prez, a truly excellent response that really puts into perspective the type of issues we are dealing with and clearly highlighted the difficulty of the tasks these people face. Thanks for going to the effort to write it. The first thing that occurred to me after reading your post was this is why box codes were of such high importance. The fact that you enjoyed one box of 2006 Monte No. 2's doesn't guarantee you will enjoy the next one... if you don't get the exact same factory and month code. Different blenders, with different raw product, at different factories just leaves to much to discretion. It also gets me thinking that perhaps there are to many cigars and vitolas on the market. You need only look at the HSA website at what the current production cigars are to realise that perhaps there are to way many cigars in the production inventory. Looking at the current Partagas inventory alone has me scratching my head as to how consistent each vitola can possibly be from year to year. So, it really gets down to, as Colt said, perhaps they should be blending in order to get the best possible result given the materials they have... rather than simply trying to imitate or replicate. Replication really does seem to be a futile exercise considering how vast the catalogue is. Whereas creation of the best cigar possible, given the materials at hand, may be an awesome proposition. The traditionalists will certainly scoff - but I can guarantee they will enjoy more smokes and complain about consistency less. Perhaps, instead of and inventory of Brands... there should be an inventory of Vitolas. Within those Vitolas there could be 3 to 5 different 'blends'. So my order to Czar would be: "Lise, please send me a box of Dalia No 3's and a box of Churchill 4's"
Ozz1113 Posted July 30, 2009 Posted July 30, 2009 From the plant, where are the leaves picked from? Top, bottom etc... Just curious, thanks.
Colt45 Posted July 30, 2009 Posted July 30, 2009 Whereas creation of the best cigar possible, given the materials at hand may be an awesome proposition. That's it in a nutshell, isn't it. Amazing, given all the discussions we've had here regarding blend consistency and marque identity, that we could think along these lines - it flies in the face of convention. I've also had thoughts that there just might be too many cigars to deal with. But it might be tough for HSA to do - they have history and the like to deal with. But this is where the new company comes in. With their focus on absolute quality and a single brand, I think they could bring it to fruition. RA had mentioned that he didn't feel a cigar which was somewhat variable would be accepted - I'm not sure I fully agree. I don't like to sell people short, and I think there are ways around it. Going back to the wine analogy, producers often put forth information regarding growing and harvest conditions, notes from barrel tastings, etc. They advise what their expectations might be for a certain vintages body, flavor, longevity, etc. They inform and prepare the consumer - why not cigars as well? I admire the thought of no release in a substandard year, but perhaps it would not need to come to that. Perhaps in a tough season, no churchills, dalias, piramides are produced. But excellent carlotas and PCs are. A new to the lineup killer parejo. This might be one of those topics easier to discuss in person, but I have to admit I find the idea kind of exciting.
aavkk Posted July 30, 2009 Posted July 30, 2009 This might be one of those topics easier to discuss in person, but I have to admit I find the idea kind of exciting. I am on board with this approach as well. The consumer is much more informed about what he/she is purchasing before making the leap of faith on a box. If HSA releases that the 2010' BBF's are expected to be very bold, rich and full bodied I would likely stowe away some funds. I like the idea of cigar "barrel tastings" provided they are as unbiased and honest as possible.
Guest rob Posted July 30, 2009 Posted July 30, 2009 I am on board with this approach as well. The consumer is much more informed about what he/she is purchasing before making the leap of faith on a box. If HSA releases that the 2010' BBF's are expected to be very bold, rich and full bodied I would likely stowe away some funds. I like the idea of cigar "barrel tastings" provided they are as unbiased and honest as possible. Put me down for at least 2 boxes of those. Oh, and definitely 2 boxes of the 2008 rolled Churchills made with premium sourced 2007 Vuelta Abajo leaf, which this year show smoothness and definition of flavour, within a medium to full bodied palate concentration. Brand is unimportant if what you're smoking doesn't represent what it purports to. I will reiterate - bring on the philosophy of making the 'best possible, with what is available'.... I'll even buy 'cleanskins' occasionally to put in the humidor for fishing trips and when doing yard work.
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