Adding to the NC discussion

[jeromeroselli]

Tonight after I ate my weight of a porterhouse at Peter Luger's in brooklyn a buddy pulled out a few Padron 1926 Anniversaries. I was reluctant to whip out the hdm 2's I had in my jacket pocket and thought it might be nice to revisit an NC after some time away.

Enjoyed smoking with my buddies but little else. I tried to not rain on their parade but as I was smoking that cigar I found that I was waiting for a punch line that would never come.

I feel that there is not only a flavor difference between cigars from "the island" and "the other islands" but just a difference in general that may not always be able to be explained, no matter how hard we try.

Don't want to waste the space on the forum here with another post lauding CC's as lots of members have expressed similar impressions after returning to an nc every now and again, but I feel that tonight I personally affirmed for myself that I'm not crazy and preference is not always subjective. If that makes sense.

Have a good night/day.

jeremy

[dmuchow]

While i hardly partake of anything NC, i do have one or two gems (if you can call it that) that I can get for $25USD or less a box, put them away for 6 months to a year and they are a great smoke that I can enjoy anywhere without worrying about how many dollar bills i'm smoking. The one i'm thinking of right now is the Cu-Avana maduro (forget the regular Cu-Avana, tasteless!) but only with age, a fresh stick is just plain BORING.

The other cigars in my humi that are NC is a small assortment of Padrons for my girlfriend. I can't say i enjoy them much, but she loves them. She enjoys only a select few in the cuban line. Just personal taste. She agrees that when the cuban cigars are good, they're great, but otherwise she's never been let down by a padron.

[Jimmy2]

Padron are not as good as years ago 64/26 are lacking in flavor as they were much better years ago.I do miss the great flavor of a 64 but they have gone flat in the last year and a half taste like cardboard.

I think the porterhouse helped the Padron taste better ..

As far as a young cigar i stand by the blender as he blends a cigar to be smoked young ( 6months to a year ) but i also like them sometimes with an aged flavor profile (2 to 5 + )... Both ways they are not boring the ones who say you have to enjoy a Cuban cigar aged and are a waste young is one of the stupidest things i have ever heard.And has no idea what the blenders job is in the first place bringing a great smoke right out of the box.

dmuchow this was not ment for you but you hear this on alot of forums which is totally wrong its all personal tastes.06/07/08 by the most part are smokable young which is the way it should have always been and was back in the days when my Uncle smoked cigars pre Castro.

Its just that for many years i think Habanos S.A. just did not get it right and now in the last 3 years have got it right and we are seeing the glory days of past when you can smoke a great cigar young and enjoy it.

Pucnh SS#1 ,Mag 46, SW ,Bolivar RC.BF and most of the line ,Partagas SD4 ,898 and alot from the line and many more brands have not smoked this good young since i started smoking CC's .

So really the old way of thinking is outdated for the most part and we should move on as Habano's S.A. has for the better bring back what a CC should be a great rich smoke young.

[Colt45]

I've mentioned this before, but generally speaking, I find the difference between NCs and Havanas to be the sense of depth on the palate.

Many NCs can be flavorful, but I often feel the flavor is but a single layer, with not much to back it up - not much depth.

On the other hand, I find most Cubans do have that depth, even when they might not be overly flavorful.

The analogy I like to use is musical - a single note versus a full chord. Both can be tasty, but compared to a single note, the chord

is full and resonant.

[sounddust]

I've mentioned this before, but generally speaking, I find the difference between NCs and Havanas to be the sense of depth on the palate.

Many NCs can be flavorful, but I often feel the flavor is but a single layer, with not much to back it up - not much depth.

On the other hand, I find most Cubans do have that depth, even when they might not be overly flavorful.

The analogy I like to use is musical - a single note versus a full chord. Both can be tasty, but compared to a single note, the chord

is full and resonant.

Great analogy, and guess what happens when CCs are fully in-tune.

Also, IMHO the Padrons 1926s aren't worth the Cohiba-like prices. However, the 3000 maduros are one of my fave walk-the-dog smokes. Sweet cocoa and leather that doesn't take much concentration to appreciate and enjoy.

[jeromeroselli]

I've mentioned this before, but generally speaking, I find the difference between NCs and Havanas to be the sense of depth on the palate.

Many NCs can be flavorful, but I often feel the flavor is but a single layer, with not much to back it up - not much depth.

On the other hand, I find most Cubans do have that depth, even when they might not be overly flavorful.

The analogy I like to use is musical - a single note versus a full chord. Both can be tasty, but compared to a single note, the chord

is full and resonant.

Colt, just a perfect analogy.

And Jimmy, cardboard is a good one as well. ha ha

[Stalebread]

The analogy I like to use is musical - a single note versus a full chord. Both can be tasty, but compared to a single note, the chord

is full and resonant.

Just to present a contrarian view -- a single, sustained note on something like, say, a cello can be very full and resonant. No?

[Shelby07]

I have to admit that in the fairly recent past I was of the mind that there were NC's that were just as good as CC's, but in a "different" way. My first experience with a CC that I knew was real was with a (gasp) Monte C EL. I remember thinking that all the hype was pretty much ridiculous. I dabbled in CC's and found some really nice ones, but many were just really terrible cigars. Turns out that after I started to be able to recognize real from fakes I realized that a good portion of what I had were knock-offs.

I have a boatload of good NC's and my intent is to smoke them up as fast as I can while the CC's sit waiting for their day. But I have noticed that the more CC's I smoke the less satisfying everything else seems to be and the harder it is to pick up a NC when I want a cigar. I think the recent threads about NC's have forced me to reevaluate and I have to say that once my NC's are gone there will be very few that I will buy again. I still enjoy some of the Tats and the Illusiones, but most of the others have just become plain old yard 'gars.

For a while I was trading cigars on other forums. My last experience was on a new board where people got "points" for gifting cigars to other members. As a result I received many sticks I never wanted. I tried to do some research on an individual before I sent anything out and would try to send something that someone had indicated they enjoyed or wanted to try, or at least something that I liked. I got a lot of stuff that I had never heard of. I kept telling myself that it was the though that counts, but soon all those good thoughts turned into a pretty mediocre collection that I didn't personally enjoy, and the stuff I did like I was giving away. I ended up sending a fairly large box to my buddy's son in the Navy and decided to quit chasing every new cigar that came out and stick with the ones I like. And it turns out that I am not buying too many NC's any more. Most of them are singles that I buy at the local B&M when I use their lounge.

So the bottom line seems to be that no matter how much I wanted to believe that the difference between CC's and NC's was all hype, I couldn't seem to prove it to myself. There is a definite difference.

[Colt45]

Just to present a contrarian view -- a single, sustained note on something like, say, a cello can be very full and resonant. No?

Absolutely - no argument here - that drawn note with vibrato can be sweet and full of emotion. But it can't match the density of the string

section playing different notes as one.

Let's use B.B. King on guitar for example. It doesn't get much tastier than one of his bent note licks. But it doesn't cover the aural spectrum

as does a full jazz chord. Or a Les Paul playing a power chord through a Boogie turned up to 11

That's my thought on the main difference here. With most Havanas, I get a sense of depth on the palate from the core out to the wrapper

- a sensation I rarely find with most NCs. Again, I'm not really referring to flavor - for me it's depth on the palate.

[laficion]

Colt, You do what you do to me. THAT WAS Really on the nail.

Thanks

[shortsqueeze]

I may have mentioned this already, if so forgive me, but I recently smoked a Padron Serie 1926 No. 9 that was superb. As good as many Cuban cigars I've smoked from 2006-2008, which have also been excellent. This Padron and the Upmann No. 2 for example I smoked recently from 2008 were much more alike than they were different. I've said this before and I'll say it again, as a general rule, the N/C's cannot compete with the Cubans in the taste department. As for wrapper quality and less recently QC, that's a different story.

[Jimmy2]

Padron Serie 1926 No. 9 i must admit i did try 3 last year and thought they were ok just like any other NC.I really wanted to like the cigar because i use to love Padrons but was very let down not what they use to be and WAY over priced.

[SamuraiJack]

Different *is* better, subjectively speaking.

Regarding current Padrons, I have consistently found the 64's to be more complex than 26's.

[Dr.G]

I was thinking about starting a new thread with this question, but it seems Colt has already nailed it:

I had the afternoon off yesterday and decided to watch both Craig James Bonds back to back and have some nice robustos.

The first one was a 2007 RR PL Robusto. Gorgeous, tight draw, but openings of sweet caramel that then turned into creamyness. It was very enjoyable, despite the slightly tight draw.

I then had a Hoyo (Honduras) Excalibur maduro, which had much better draw and nice bitter coffee flavours, but lacked complexity and certainly didn't evolve through the thirds.

So here came my idea (based on only a limited tasting of NC): Do NC evolve through the thirds or as Colt says, are they good but one dimensional? Because I certainly haven't noticed any 1/3 changes in any NC I've had. If this is the case, then are CA right in judging NC by only smoking the first inch?

Just a thought...

Cheers,

George

[jeromeroselli]

It's all tobacco, just grown in different places.

Sort of like an old stradivarius violin. They were created in the 1600's from a certain type of tree, grown in a certain field, in a certain time period. No matter how hard anyone tries to this day, that sound can not be replicated. Even with the same dimensions and even the same wood. It all has to do with where those trees were grown in that soil.

You can replicate it, but you can't be it. That's the simple answer.

[Jimmy2]

Thats what i have been saying the whole time !!! Its the soil !!!!

[GoSteelers]

Guys I just love cigars CC NC I love em.

I think there are some really great NCs especially the boutique lines out of Dominican and Nicaragua

If you havent tried any La Flor Dominicana, Illusione, Perdomo, Tatuaje lately I think you are missing out.

on the other hand, I think a lot of the older brands are going quantity over quality and have put out some duds with big names on em, wont mention any names i know how touch some get about their brands. But with prices going up they need to get their heads out of their ass and make better cigars!

[Stalebread]

. With most Havanas, I get a sense of depth on the palate from the core out to the wrapper

- a sensation I rarely find with most NCs. Again, I'm not really referring to flavor - for me it's depth on the palate.

"most" but not all.

"rarely" but not never.

OK. It sends up a lot of red flags for me when people have to rely on using absolutes to try to make a point. Thanks for the qualifiers.

On the one hand, I think I understand your point about depth on the palate as opposed to flavor. Actually, it's something that I haven't thought much about before and I'll try to pay more attention to this from now on.

On the other, I don't entirely agree with the single note idea. To me (and, of course, this is just my opinion, a preference, a prejudice, not a fact. It also drives me nuts when people state their opinion as if it were a fact.) a single note can be just full and resonant as a chord.

My opinion in no way diminishes your analogy.

[Stalebread]

. . . I then had a Hoyo (Honduras) Excalibur maduro, which had much better draw and nice bitter coffee flavours, but lacked complexity and certainly didn't evolve through the thirds.

So here came my idea (based on only a limited tasting of NC): Do NC evolve through the thirds or as Colt says, are they good but one dimensional? Because I certainly haven't noticed any 1/3 changes in any NC I've had. If this is the case, then are CA right in judging NC by only smoking the first inch?

First, I'm not sure that a Honduran Hoyo is the best cigar on which to base your opinion of non-Cuban cigars.

Second, in my (limited) experience, a non-Cuban cigar that uses high quality tobacco and is well blended can be a complex smoke. Recently I smoked a La Flor Dominicana Double Ligero Especiales that I'd had since late '05. It was balanced smoke (they're not always) that had predominant leather notes but those leather notes kept mixing with and changing places with mild citrus, floral, and woody notes throughout the cigar. I never knew exactly what the next puff was going to deliver. The intensity of flavor and strength built for the entire smoke. It did not get over-powering. It never got "tarry." As I understand the definition, that cigar was complex. Earlier this week, I smoked a Cuban Cohiba Lancero from 2000. The burn and draw were great but the flavor did not change or evolve. The flavor was good but it got boring. That cigar was not complex. Go figure. Of course, it's entirely possible that the only thing any of this means is that my taste buds are really screwed up.

Finally, no matter the case, cA is not right to judge any cigar by smoking only the first inch.

[Colt45]

"most" but not all.

"rarely" but not never.

OK. It sends up a lot of red flags for me when people have to rely on using absolutes to try to make a point. Thanks for the qualifiers.

I feel the same. You can pretty much take it for granted that my posts here are simply my opinions. I try not to voice them as

statements of fact.

On the one hand, I think I understand your point about depth on the palate as opposed to flavor. Actually, it's something that I haven't thought much about before and I'll try to pay more attention to this from now on.

I don't know that this will explain my idea of depth on the palate any better, but let me use bread as an example (no pun intended).

In one hand we have a piece of soft, chewy bread - sourdough, or something similar. In the other we have just hard bread crust.

Chewing on the piece of bread, what sensations do you get? As you chew, the bread kind of sticks to itself, maybe to the roof of your

mouth. A sense of density, fullness, depth.

Now, you eat the hard crusts. The flavor might be relatively the same, but the sensation on your palate would more than likely be thinner,

lacking depth. I don't know that I can ever truly articulate my thought - it's not simply body - it's how it presents itself, how I physically

sense that weight on my palate.

On the other, I don't entirely agree with the single note idea.

The music analogy should be taken strictly as it relates to my personal feelings regarding the major difference between NCs and CCs.

[Jimmy2]

NC are ok but will never be as good as CC period now lets move on people .....Again its the soil

[Stalebread]

NC are ok but will never be as good as CC period now lets move on people .....Again its the soil

I do not share your opinion.

My own experience just does not bear it (your opinion) out.

But I sure do admire your passion and loyalty.

[semery74]

Or a Les Paul playing a power chord through a Boogie turned up to 11

That's my thought on the main difference here. With most Havanas, I get a sense of depth on the palate from the core out to the wrapper

- a sensation I rarely find with most NCs. Again, I'm not really referring to flavor - for me it's depth on the palate.

Colt,

Had to laugh when I saw this. I was just thinking of the Spinal Tap Rockumentry the other night when they were contemplating why the stereo only went up to 11.

I always like the wine analogy that pertains to cigars. I see Habanas as the blended bordeaux or the american meritage, just a symphony of aromas to occupy the senses. And NCs plus others as the California Varietals, that just bore the pallet, but they are good for what I like to call "working breaks". Smoke them at times when you can not concentrate or afford to pitch them in the yard and stream.

[Colt45]

Colt,

Had to laugh when I saw this. I was just thinking of the Spinal Tap Rockumentry the other night when they were contemplating why the stereo only went up to 11.

It's hard to believe that this is the 25th anniversary of "This is Spinal Tap"

I try to stay away from the "these are better / those are better" arguments - I feel it's all very subjective and personal preference. I thought

the most pertinent part of Jerome's original post, with which I agree and tried to respond to was this:

I feel that there is not only a flavor difference between cigars from "the island" and "the other islands" but just a difference in general that may not always be able to be explained, no matter how hard we try.

Grapes for wine and tobacco for cigars do have a lot in common, but when I look at wine, there is so much that goes into producing it, and

ways to make it, that I sometimes have trouble making an easy correlation between the two - I suppose that at times, I might over simplify

the process of producing quality tobacco in my mind.

The same grape can vary from country to country, state to state, vineyard to vineyard, area to area of the same vineyard. And then it's in the

hands of the producer - oak or steel, new oak, used oak, size of barrel, how long it sits in either, etc, etc, etc.....

It can be mind boggling - I suppose the same could be said for the processing of tobacco.