Cohiba Siglo VI Gran Reserva...

[El Presidente]

Rolled leaves folks... rolled ******* leaves!

Thanks for the report anyway Rob. So did you enjoy the 898 tasting? I just saw some of Alex's pictures.

Piggy....Champagne/Wine..."Crushed grapes folks...crushed ******* grapes!"

What about Truffles ......"Fungus folks....black ******* fungus!"

We are talking commodities. Each is affected by demand, supply and perception. I know people who spend $5000 for a bottle of DRC. I personally wouldn't however who am I to judge what one spends upon their passions.

I thoroughly enjoyed the 898 Vertical tasting with Alex and the assembled "aficionado's". I feel very honoured to have been invited to take part and it was great to catch up wih so many people in one place.

[Padrino]

Rolled leaves folks... rolled ******* leaves!

Quote of the year right there

[Colt45]

Champagne/Wine..."Crushed grapes folks...crushed ******* grapes!"

I agree in spirit, but if I may, I'd be curious to know how they determined the five thousand cigar limit. Was that the amount of tobacco

they felt of quality to make these cigars, or was it a number they came up with to promote exclusivity.

The DRC example is, in my opinion, a good one. Prices are high, but you are all but guaranteed the quality of the wine inside the bottle.

The vineyards are small, yields are low, and the producer is one of the, if not the, top producers in Burgundy. In this case, the exclusivity

is inherent in the nature of this particular commodity.

HSA on the other hand - at least at times in my eyes - does not meet the same standards of consistency in quality, and contrives exclusivity.

Re-releasing ELs. Flavor discrepancies of the 2006 Cohiba Piramide EL. Construction issues with some original release RA Estupendo REs.

Add a band, add to the price.

Seriously, I have no problem with what they do, or begrudge those who purchase regardless of cost or quality. But I can't help but feel

that their perception of the value of their product differs from mine, and that the gap is widening. We can only continue to vote with

our wallets.

[TheFife]

The goal of any company is to make as much profit as possible, for as long as possible. If the business minds have decided that a healthy dose of limited release product is the way to do it, then let them give it a go. If it makes money, then it works. If you don't like it, come up with your own competing product that doesn't have such high margians.

As for whether or not the prices are worth it, I would bet that they are. Imagine the exact same cigar priced at $5 and $50. Then ask people to rate the cigar with full knowledge of the price. People will rate the $50 cigar higher than the $5 cigar, though they will admit that the $5 cigar is a better "value". Whats even stranger is that people will actually experience the $50 as tasting better! I'm sure that some people don't agree with what I am saying, but it has been proven in plenty of psychological studies. Expectation goes a long way in determining evaluation. So by telling people they are getting something that is limited and charging an insane amount for it, you are causing the person to actually experience the product as "better".

Brad

[bassman]

I saw his blog. He said it was the best young smoke he has had in his entire life and he scored it 100 points unblind. But with only a little more than 300 boxes produced, they may be impossile to find even if you'd pay US$60 a stick.

Remember the Trinidad Farmhouse? 100 numbered boxes- then lord only knows how many un numbered ones.

[brian1]

So true, you cant believe a word that comes out of Habanos S.A mouth.

Remember the Trinidad Farmhouse? 100 numbered boxes- then lord only knows how many un numbered ones.

[Trevor2118]

I saw his blog. He said it was the best young smoke he has had in his entire life and he scored it 100 points unblind. But with only a little more than 300 boxes produced, they may be impossile to find even if you'd pay US$60 a stick.

Can we get a clarification on this...the original advice was that 5,000 boxes were to be produced, but this is now being quoted as 5,000 cigars?

[brian1]

I bet thats a misquote from suckling...5000 cigars is 333 boxes...makes no sense.

Can we get a clarification on this...the original advice was that 5,000 boxes were to be produced, but this is now being quoted as 5,000 cigars?

[PigFish]

Rob if I were to tell you that I spent 10 times more for a cigar than it would have cost me if I got if from you what would you think of my judgment? You may not tell me that I am a damn fool but it would cross your mind would it not? I think it would. I think it crossed your mind when you found out that your acquaintance paid $5000 for a bottle of wine. By stating that you “wouldn’t” buy it yourself, you instantly made a value judgment. You judged the value of the wine and your friend’s decision to buy it right at the same time. Don’t say, “who am I to judge?” We all do it all the time, it is nothing to be ashamed of.

Are you really saying that I get better cigars if I pay more for them?

Is there a market for $1000 dollar cigars? Sure there is; I am not nor have I ever denied it. But my rolled leaves analogy still stands and I stand by it. Simply stating that the neighbors do it… an argument my wife makes to me all the time is no argument at all. Stating that some damn fool spends his/her money on overpriced wine, fungus or vaginal lubricant mean nothing to me. I am not arguing that people can’t be foolish with money I am simply stating that I believe they are being foolish with it by spending this amount of money on this type of cigar.

I wear a Rolex watch and surely spent more for it than many others think it is worth. I stand ready to be judged without remorse! I like my watch, I like my Harley too and other foolishly purchased luxury items including my cigars. Just because I like something does not make the purchase foolish to some nor does it mean that we all can’t be objective about what I/we all get for our money. My Harley despite its cost won’t beat most motorcycles around a race track or out perform motorcycles ¼ the price. My Rolex does not keep time as well as a Chinese made quartz watch. Just because I spent the money does not mean that I have lost all objectivity over what I spent it on.

I am going back to my statement about paying 10 times what you would charge me for a cigar for a moment so that I may illustrate a point. Paying more for a cigar does not guarantee me a better cigar. If it did I would admit it and pay more to get better ones if I could afford it. Paying more does not even guarantee me of a good cigar. I think Colt made that point rather well. So who here thinks it does? Who here thinks that the more you pay for a cigar the better cigar you get. Please chime in I want to hear about your vast experience. Perhaps I should buy cigars from Mo because he obviously sells better cigars because they cost more.

H SA is a government owned entity. There are no brands anymore. The cigars are rolled all over the island in different factories and brand recognition is nothing but a fond memory in most instances. Habanos does not guarantee quality or taste in any practical fashion. They roll it, we smoke it, if we don’t like it we are **** outta’ luck! They roll good cigars and they roll some bad. When they are bad many say they are ‘sick.’ They are never bad… just sick. Cuban cigars already get a great deal of slack from the consumer and as a consumer of the same I freely admit to it but I am objective about it and furthermore have the balls to admit it!

So the point to me is objectivity; honesty with ones own tastes and assesments. I submit that anyone who has smoked Habanos for a few years knows you don’t always get what you pay for. The difference between a good cigar and a bad one is not measured by a shiny box, an additional band OR THE PRICE YOU PAID FOR IT. It might as well be due to pixy dust, luck of the draw or a gift of God. Knowing this as I do I won’t be buying $1000 a box Cohiba Chumpus Supremus cigars. Please feel free to put my share right next to your Montessa!!! -LOL

[genevapics]

I will pass as regular production CC have been excellant (Boilivar,Partagas ,Upmann R&J and more) why waste money when you could get 3 or 4 boxes of something just as good.

I'm with you...

[genevapics]

PigFish:

If you ever escape the Isle of Man and find yourself washed up on the shores of Delaware, please look me up; I would like to have you over for a cigar or two from my rather pedestrian stock of regular production cigars...

[PigFish]

Thank you sir. I am a proud leader in the "cigar proletariat" movement!!! A corona in every humidor shall be my epitaph! -LOL

[tandblov]

Rob, the next logical question is:

Are you guys going to be getting any?

[messa]

...

I am going back to my statement about paying 10 times what you would charge me for a cigar for a moment so that I may illustrate a point. Paying more for a cigar does not guarantee me a better cigar. If it did I would admit it and pay more to get better ones if I could afford it. Paying more does not even guarantee me of a good cigar. I think Colt made that point rather well. So who here thinks it does? Who here thinks that the more you pay for a cigar the better cigar you get. Please chime in I want to hear about your vast experience. Perhaps I should buy cigars from Mo because he obviously sells better cigars because they cost more.

...

PigFish, I agree with you in that more $$$ <> more better.

However, in regards specifically to the Cohiba VI Gran Reserva, after all the initial reviews the $1,000 to me might be worth it considering that the quality has already been highly spoken for. So in my mind, my $$$ are likely buying me quality for this cigar.

[PigFish]

PigFish, I agree with you in that more $$$ <> more better.

However, in regards specifically to the Cohiba VI Gran Reserva, after all the initial reviews the $1,000 to me might be worth it considering that the quality has already been highly spoken for. So in my mind, my $$$ are likely buying me quality for this cigar.

Look, I am not here to tell anyone what to buy or what not to buy. I am here to share experiences and uphold my end of semi-intelligent discussions about cigars.

What I am saying about buying expensive, limited editions and special cigars is that I don’t like the odds. They have a losing track record. Now I am not saying that they don’t sell… that track record is without question, they are a marketing success. When I say track record I mean they don’t have a taste performance that justifies their cost. If they did I would buy them because I know what a good cigar tastes like. Would I ***** about the cost? Sure… I am a cheap sonofabitch. Would I deny their unique or sublime taste? No I would not because I uphold a belief in honest evaluation.

If all I did since Y2K was to buy LE cigars I would have a lot less boxes of cigars. But more importantly than the number of cigars is the quality of the cigars that I would own. By quality I mean how well they taste. Of those boxes (if I only bought LE’s) they would actually be inferior to the regular production cigars that I have now. That is all that I am saying. My odds in finding the best cigars are greater by buying reasonably priced regular production cigars than they are if I were focused on ‘premium’ cigars. I have proven this to myself by buying and tasting many, many cigars.

Knowing what you like and buying what you like is the important thing. I spend a lot of my time here sharing the tastes of cigars that are not common talk amongst the internet cigar crowd. This is what I contribute because this is what I know, like and purchase for myself. These are not fancy automobiles. We are not comparing Porsche to Peugeot. We are comparing two or perhaps only one model of Porsche with different paint and interior. This is my view! We are comparing very similar animals who’s only difference is in their cost to own and the box that they come in.

[kjellfrick]

Knowing what you like and buying what you like is the important thing. I spend a lot of my time here sharing the tastes of cigars that are not common talk amongst the internet cigar crowd. This is what I contribute because this is what I know, like and purchase for myself. These are not fancy automobiles. We are not comparing Porsche to Peugeot. We are comparing two or perhaps only one model of Porsche with different paint and interior. This is my view! We are comparing very similar animals who’s only difference is in their cost to own and the box that they come in.

This is very well stated. I've had a discussion about the value of the EL's and RE's with friends in Sweden and many of them feel the way you do. For myself, my curiosity get's the better of me many times, and if I had the money I'd buy the Gran Reservas without blinking.

[Punch Joe]

Fuente had nothing taken form them they came to America i think about 100 years ago they made machine made cigars at first. I am almost sure

I think all these Blood suckers NC companies will cash in and ruin everything when they get there hands on Cuba which i dont want to happen.I think all they care about is making tons of money and dont give a crap about there customers phonies most of them.

And why should any of the people get anything back when they left or got kicked out and who the hell is the USA to say that as Cuba was never part of the US.I feel bad for them but they will never get anything back greed is what caused the problems in the first place with Batista and most of the people who followed him that live in Miami.

Jimmy, good point. 50 years ago or more, some left the Island.Amongst them some good men, others were just crap. Benji Menendez for example, has got nothing to have back in Cuba since he registered the Montecrsito brandname in the US where we couldn´t do anything about it. But that´s only a case and no matter his willings to come back for whatever reasons, he would not have the rights to claim whatñs he has left. I think there is no way back on that point. Padrón, who I respect the most for being the smartest of them all, has visited the Island after the revolution, three times. I know his family in Pinar del Río and I visited his house in Piloto where still stands. Have no words when I say hello over the phone to him a few months back. They don´t refuse being Cubans, but at the end we are a huge tobacco family. We know how we think, how to do things when it comes to the Leaf processing and manufacturing. It´s our tradition. Hence, I understand why they want the leaf back because nowhere in the world grows tobacco better than in Cuba. Even the sometimes low esteemed JLPiedras can blow your mind if smoked at the right time. We have nothing against those growers I think many Cubans would share my opinion, my experience and chat with them told me so. NC companies can have as many dellusions as they want...one thing we never give away is the land.

[Colt45]

...one thing we never give away is the land.

One thing to never forget is that many didn't give away their land, either.

[FlyFishingDude]

Well then, how about a group purchase? 10 people, split the cost, not too big a dent in the wallet, see if they're as great as expected, a couple extra $$$ thrown in for shipping to participating entities?? I'm in!

Mike

[Trevor2118]

Well then, how about a group purchase? 10 people, split the cost, not too big a dent in the wallet, see if they're as great as expected, a couple extra $$$ thrown in for shipping to participating entities?? I'm in!

Mike

Good idea, but they come in boxes of 15......

[El Presidente]

One thing to never forget is that many didn't give away their land, either.

Colt

Neither did the Aborigines here or other "Native inhabitants" around the word. We did say "Sorry" last year in Oz but compensation .....forgetaboutit.

After 50 years you are not going to force current cubans out of houses and land. Not without a civil war anyway. You have just touched on the biggest fear of Havana residents. There is plenty of animosity against those Miami "exiles" who continue to spruik the idea of property returning to "rightful" owners. It will be over someone's dead body.

There will need to be some reconcilliation but there will be no compensation (there is no money). Personally I would give Cuban exiles who can prove persecution/loss (political/financial) preferred tender status for Joint Ventures over the next 5 years (before it opens up to the rest of the US) There will be no outright ownership of property projects until Cubans can do same. Again...why invite a civil war.

Regarding the Cohiba Siglo VI Gran Reserva I have three but have only smoked one and that was just when I was coming ill so not a fair assessment.

I look forward to doing a review in about 2 weeks

[Colt45]

Colt

Neither did the Aborigines here or other "Native inhabitants" around the word. We did say "Sorry" last year in Oz but compensation .....forgetaboutit.

I've stated elsewhere that I doubt reclamation possible, and I'm not advocating it. Besides, it's not my business.

But it's striking to hear it said we won't return what's not ours to begin with.

If someone stole from you, and you had opportunity, would you not take it back?

And trust me, I understand my outlook to be rudimentary.

[FlyFishingDude]

Good idea, but they come in boxes of 15......

Good point. In all fairness the extra 5 should be given to me since it was my idea....... I'm sure we could work something out, give away on the board, donations to a good cause, or something.....OR we could include 15 people that want to invest.

Mike

[El Presidente]

I've stated elsewhere that I doubt reclamation possible, and I'm not advocating it. Besides, it's not my business.

But it's striking to hear it said we won't return what's not ours to begin with.

If someone stole from you, and you had opportunity, would you not take it back?

And trust me, I understand my outlook to be rudimentary.

I know we are dealing here with raw passions/wounds.

But it's striking to hear it said we won't return what's not ours to begin with

It really is understanding the mindset.

Colt, they didn't say it wasn't theirs to begin with. They believe it is. They have worked it, they have suffered the "revolution" and have paid as much a price as the price paid by those who were exiled or left on their own accord. Those who remained (and many could not leave due to circumstance) toiled in a system of repression and no opportunity. Those who left could start again and many have and have done so successfully.

How I would love to have you at a long lunch with my fishing mate Jeremy in Pinar. Actually you, Jeremy, Jose, Jorge Padron and myself.

Oh the fireworks

Colt I don't defend either side of the argument. I simply try to explain the thought process.

[mbrody]

If singles or a split (I'd be in Mike) could happen, I would have to try a few. A full box, outta my range...