OMG...here he goes again!

[harryleech]

2) It's the US, no one will accept making it a crime to pay a doctor and see who you choose, in every nationalized country, this is the fact of it. They all have outlawed private medicine.

I'm not sure if I'm mis-construing what you're saying, but it seems like you are suggesting that everywhere that has a universal healthcare system has outlawed/restricted private medicine. If that's what you're saying (and excuse me if you're not) then it's complete bull. We have universal healthcare in Ireland, and while it is extremely imperfect, it gives good healthcare to all who need it, and the only rationing is that those who need it most urgently go to the top of the queue.

If you wish to purchase private health insurance (and get a private room, prettier nurse etc) then you can, and many do. If you don't like the Doctor that you're going to, go to another one. I've seen our health service and the one in the States, and bad as it is I'd prefer to be sick and uninsured in Ireland/UK/France/Germany than the US.

The US does lead the world in Cancer research, study etc, but what happens if you get a rare form of cancer but are uninsured, or your insurance only covers certain typs of treatments?

[Chicago]

What do physicians earn in Australia, ie. general practioners and let's say a cardiologist? Also, what is the legal climate like in terms of physician's and malpractice? Is the climate very litigious where MD's are constantly looking over their shoulders for fear of being sued for malpractice?

What about the private insurance companies, what % of the population has their coverage and are they profitable?

In the states, these three groups have been pointing the finger at each other for years as to why the cost for insurance is so high. Throw the hospital systems in, who are always expanding and rebuilding, at least here in Chicago, and you begin to see why healthcare here is so expensive.

[bobsled]

Having the government look after the well being of its citizens is paternalistic, not democratic. Kicking up the percent on a sin tax to cover "the children" is a safe first step towards a paternalistic/socialist "big brother" form of government.

Universal healthcare is a step down the road to socialism.

[bobsled]

There is a balance in healthcare. With all due respect your system in the US is screwed. When we were in NY three years ago Shagga who was travelling with me had chest pains. Called the local Hotel doctor who quoted $800USD to be seen. WTF?

Universal healthcare means universal taxation 1-2% regardless of weather you have private cover or not.

It is not perfect but it does work.

So if a US citizen were in Oz, would they be seen for no cost? Generally when I travel out of the US, I have to verify that my current health insurance will cover the country I am traveling in or I need to buy a policy to cover out of country care........

[harryleech]

Having the government look after the well being of its citizens is paternalistic, not democratic. Kicking up the percent on a sin tax to cover "the children" is a safe first step towards a paternalistic/socialist "big brother" form of government.

Universal healthcare is a step down the road to socialism.

So..... What exactly is a government supposed to do?

[Ken Gargett]

when i lived in DC, the law firm i was with was fantastic but the one thing they would not pay was health insurance - it had something to do with my status at the time but no big deal. so i signed up. cost me, from memory, around $1500 a year. when i was about to go travelling at the end of the stint with the law firm - for three months with some mates - i extended for those three months. best thing i ever did.

managed to get a burst appendix and a few weeks later, peritonitis. spent more than a month in various hospitals. operations etc. total cost - zip. without the insurance, i have no idea but i suspect not cheap.

as an aside, anyone else had experience with the medical care in montreal and environs? they nearly killed me - rest of canada was mostly excellent but if i had a life threatening issue, i'd hope on a plane for zimbabwe before i'd let them near me again. interesting thing was that almost everyone i met at that time (it was a while ago so hopefully improvements have been made) in canada, and a few beyond, had stories of appalling standards in quebec and the rest of the east (loved quebec the town but if montreal slid into the sea, wouldn't bat an eyelid). one doctor in ottawa told me that if i had any reoccurence, i had to go immediately to a hospital without wasting a second. unless i was in eastern canada, in which case i was to go striaght to the airport and get out to anywhere and then get immediately to a hospital. sorry - i have digressed.

[El Presidente]

Universal healthcare is a step down the road to socialism.

I thought bailing out Wall street was.

[El Presidente]

So if a US citizen were in Oz, would they be seen for no cost? Generally when I travel out of the US, I have to verify that my current health insurance will cover the country I am traveling in or I need to buy a policy to cover out of country care........

Yes. You could go to any Public Hospital and be seen. We had a lovely lady visit from Tampa (last September) and she fell off her Harley on a bike ride through the state. Broken arm, fractured leg. She was stunned by the service and the fact that she paid nothing.

If you have travel insurance you could go to any private hospital as well.

[El Presidente]

What do physicians earn in Australia, ie. general practioners and let's say a cardiologist? Also, what is the legal climate like in terms of physician's and malpractice? Is the climate very litigious where MD's are constantly looking over their shoulders for fear of being sued for malpractice?

What about the private insurance companies, what % of the population has their coverage and are they profitable?

In the states, these three groups have been pointing the finger at each other for years as to why the cost for insurance is so high. Throw the hospital systems in, who are always expanding and rebuilding, at least here in Chicago, and you begin to see why healthcare here is so expensive.

What do physicians earn in Australia, ie. general practioners and let's say a cardiologist?

GP on average would earn $150K a year. If seriously good one more.

Cardiologist $600K (50 years of age).

legal climate like in terms of physician's and malpractice

Tighter than previously. No defence for negligence. Ken in a better position to comment. Insurance costs are high for Medical practitioners.

Private insurance companies, what % of the population has their coverage and are they profitable

As at September 08 44.8% of Australians were covered by Private Health Insurance. The funds are profitable but they fall into two categories (for profit and not for profit).

[SethG]

Hmmm... great information from everyone, lots to think about. My girlfriend is just finishing her masters in health administration and a really good friend is a manager up in Kaiser Permanente, so I get it from all sides.

Great discussion.

One thing I can say without more research, if you were quoted a "Hotel" doctor at 800, I'm not even sure what that is. If you're buddy was going man down, you'd have an ambulance. If he was seriously worried, he'd go into the nearest urgent care and be hooked into two different cardiologists before they even booked insurance. Some places are a little more aggressive about asking in advance.

I'm guess a hotel doctor is some high paid guy who comes to the hotel to service VIP's?

[bobsled]

I thought bailing out Wall street was.

Um, that was probably more like cronyism......and our government seems to go through many cycles that include this "ism"

[Colt45]

The decline into socialism is pervasive. We may soon be sporting these:

»

[kjellfrick]

:lol:

That was f-g hilarious, Colt!

(Where can I buy one?... )

[El Presidente]

!LOL! Colt.

There is something about Banana Republics which has always attracted me

[JMH]

!LOL! Colt.

There is something about Banana Hammocks which has always attracted me

We never would have guessed

[SofaKing]

what is the legal climate like in terms of physician's and malpractice? Is the climate very litigious where MD's are constantly looking over their shoulders for fear of being sued for malpractice?

In the states, these three groups have been pointing the finger at each other for years as to why the cost for insurance is so high. Throw the hospital systems in, who are always expanding and rebuilding, at least here in Chicago, and you begin to see why healthcare here is so expensive.

You hit the nail on the head. Here in the U.S. , Attorneys are so sue happy to make a buck it's disgusting. The onlt thing worse are the judges that rule in favor of these frivilous law suits and the people that actually need to be compensated for being wronged usually loose.

If you need wealth come to America and sue!

[Chicago]

We have good friends where the husband is now a stay at home dad because his partner was sued for malpractice and the insurance for the entire practice went up such that it was prohibitive to stay on as a GP. Our community lost the services of a qualified physician.

[Dogwatch Dale]

So..... What exactly is a government supposed to do?

Depends on the government. The US government has it's charter specifically laid in in our Constitution. Here's what it says the powers of the federal government are. I don't see anything in here that says it's up to the Feds to take care of me and mine.

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and

Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general

Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be

uniform throughout the United States;

To borrow money on the credit of the United States;

To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and

with the Indian Tribes;

To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject

of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;

To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the

Standard of Weights and Measures;

To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin

of the United States;

To establish Post Offices and Post Roads;

To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited

Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings

and Discoveries;

To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;

To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and

Offenses against the Law of Nations;

To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning

Captures on Land and Water;

To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be

for a longer Term than two Years;

To provide and maintain a Navy;

To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union,

suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining the Militia, and for

governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United

States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers,

and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline

prescribed by Congress;

To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District

(not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and

the acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United

States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent

of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of

Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings; And

To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into

Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this

Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or

Officer thereof.