Casa Magna Who?

[Miami101]

Some basic information that you´d rather know based on the tasting panel at the factories and the rollers and supervisors that belong to it who rates and score cigars everyday and do that for a living.

Any person in the role of taster should not smoke over 5 cigars per day at session. They use to smoke 4 generally, after that, all your senses are compromised and not able to fully identify all the variables on the game. Those who braggs about smoking up to 15 cigars per day can please tell me how good was in terms of flavour deepness the 5th compared to the 8th...

Memory is highly selective in the short term and we tend to forget the information which is useless at a certain time so we can let more brain cells do the work in focusing on the thing we consider the major factors, in this case, flavours, aroma, strenght, evolution, general appereance and others. First impression on the cigar can definitely affect your judgement. I told this many times, it´s not the same when I see an even wrapper color throughout the cigar and the oily surface shining that makes my mouth waters than having a cigar that doesn´t look so good and made put it apart. Even though, some are great considering inner features but the appereance is foul. But my point is that I have rarely been let down by a cigar that made a good first impression on me. Expectations of what to be found inside enhance my view and sharpen my senses. More focused and awaken. My opinion after all since I use to sample cigars from different factories and going to Color grading department and choose from different tables when allowed.

They also assign an important role to cleaning up the palate between tastings, and if needed to take a few minutes to breath in and out. All of this surrounding in a very quiet place, with no winds or currents whatsoever, no other smells interfiering so it´s always away from places like kitchens, washers, cafeterias...

They have a short version of the form we use for tastings which is quiet easy for them to use.

Bad thing is they ussually don´t make any statement that provides qualitative information on the cigar, some times

They smoke up to the 2nd third of the cigar in a blind taste. Of course they are smoking cigars from the very production of the factory, some could go guessing but it´s not easy. Take Upmann for example, it´s the home factory for Diplomaticos, Upmann and Montecristo, and from time to time supporting another factories when it comes to Hoyo de Monterrey and a few sizes form Romeo and Julieta. Bearing in mind that Coronas and MArevas as well as robustos are present in all of these marques, you are not having an easy task to achieve. They use a 1-5 scale where around 4 when it comes to draw is the best and 5 when measuring other things is best. I will attached the form here, if not now, sometime within this week. Yeah, I know it´´s our way to make things even more complicated. Ok here we go with the document....fingers crossed

Good information, and thoughts on the subject.

[Van55]

I am afraid I have read the various debates over cA's cigar ratings over the years almost to the point that I am nauseated by new ones. No reflection on Miami here.

First off, I am 100% willing to accept as true cA's claims (repeatedly) that (aside from obvious uniques sizes and shapes) the cigars are truly tasted blind, and that advertising revenue has absolutely nothing to do with the ratings or whether or not a given cigar's rating is published. Cynics may think Mott, Suckling, Savona et al. are liars. I do not.

Second, any evaluation system that is based entirely on subjective tastes cannot logically be debated. It is so cliche, that "Each to his own" is trite whether expressed in English, French or even Latin ("De gustibus non est disputantum.") Forgive me if I misspelled that.

Third, any evaulation of system based on taste that purports to distinguish qualities (or goodness or potential or complexity or overall experience) of cigars on one point increments between 0 and 100 (or even between the defacto 70 to 100 that cA uses) is tommyrot. Rob takes issue with my 1 to 6 smokerings system as too limited for him, and I respect that. But even he divides his own 70-100 (or 0-30) system into five broader classifications.

The point is, though, that in reality, the only person whose ratings really matter is oneself, becuase taste is entirely individual. So ratings by any numbering system are worth only one thing -- entertainment value.

Now maybe over time you read enough reviews of cigars you have smoked that you begin to conclude that a reviewer's indvidual tastes mirror your own. In that case, a rating or review can influence a buying decision. I've read enough cA reviews/ratings that I have zero faith in them as an influence to what I should buy to smoke, except perhaps out of curiosity and to re-confirm that cA's ratings are worthless -- to ME.

With our esteemed host, El Presidente, he and I both know that I have disagreed with his ratings from time to time. That doesn't mean that I don't enjoy the hell out of his point of view and the way he expresses it. And I may or may not be influenced by his opinion of a given marca and vitola.

[Ken Gargett]

I still think we should have an FOH standard, and a base for those standards.

This way when someone reviews we can have a base for the review.

i think we had a crack at tbis once before and got nowhere. everyone has their own way and i know i'll continue to use what suits me. it may not suit others but i think we tend to get the drift and, as with wine reviews, the words are more important than the score, though sadly in today's world, a quick glance at the score is usually all that happens.

the other issue with something standard is that it doesn't quite work because one man's 90 is 86 or 92 to someone else. i am probably a little more on the generous side than most so i know that if i give something 92 and rob gives it 90 and smithy gives it 63 we are all in tune (well, two of us). i also think that where i do not like a cigar, i'm a bit harder on it than others so if i go 75 and rob goes 82 and smithy 94 then again (two out of three).

[Ken Gargett]

Spiro Zavos doesn't have anti-Qld bias, it's just that he doesn't like you people up north

especially when you beat us at rugby

i kept two quotes from him - the rest i rip up in fury (but it keeps me buying the paper so i suppose it is why he does it).

the 40 test experiemnt with michael lynagh has to stop (and there would have gone the 91 world cup);

and

little and horan are not good centres (what, he'd pefer nathan grey and lloyd walker? continents drift faster than those two could move - the only backs that could not outrun props in history).

[Ken Gargett]

P.S.[/b]

I've never met him or spoken with him, so I have no opinion either way. But if dropping my name gets him to

shout you a round, be my guest

probably get him arrested.

i've met james in havana last festival and he came across as a thoroughly nice bloke (you have to feel a little sorry for him in that as the tallest poppy around, he is always going to have people knocking him). don't always agree with what he decrees but it is quite possible he could say the same. i have no reason, nor have i ever heard of any, to doubt his integrity.

i've probably read a lot more of his wine stuff than his cigar writings and again, don't always agree but overall i think he is pretty good and well respected. i know that he focused on portugal at one stage and they have the highest regard for him.

i guess we'll never know but i'd love to find out how he feels about the CA 'bias' (and i am not necessarily using that word in a negative sense) towards non cubans.

[Guest rob]

Really good post, Van.

[El Presidente]

Great information Jose .

This has been an interesting thread on the vagaries of taste and tasting. I have enjoyed the differing points of view.

[ARRV]

i kept two quotes from him - the rest i rip up in fury (but it keeps me buying the paper so i suppose it is why he does it).

the 40 test experiemnt with michael lynagh has to stop (and there would have gone the 91 world cup);

and

little and horan are not good centres (what, he'd pefer nathan grey and lloyd walker? continents drift faster than those two could move - the only backs that could not outrun props in history).

Nathan Grey was a Qld-er

Lloyd Walker had great hands!! And if any member of the front row was ever injured he could have taken their place.

As for comments re the experiment with Lynagh, hmmmm, well, no comment........... Can't presently recall the NSW 5/8 at that time - thinking stephen james or something like that maybe?? How knows, never took much interest in back line play

[gwags]

Great information Jose .

This has been an interesting thread on the vagaries of taste and tasting. I have enjoyed the differing points of view.

C'mon, am I the only one who said "What he say"? I learnt a new word today. Sorry for the interruption.

Main Entry: va·ga·ry

Pronunciation: \ˈvā-gə-rē; və-ˈger-ē, vā-; also ˈva-gə-rē\

Function: noun

Inflected Form(s): plural va·ga·ries

Etymology: probably from Latin vagari to wander, from vagus wandering

Date: 1579

: an erratic, unpredictable, or extravagant manifestation, action, or notion

synonyms see caprice

[Miami101]

Thank you everyone for posting information and giving such great input. This is why I love this site so much, and keep coming back here almost everyday. My only regret is that I can't sit with you guys, and have a nice cigar when talking about these topics. Lots of my friends here in Miami are also members, but tend to just read the postings.

For example my brother has also been a long member, but has never posted....but reads all the postings to keep up to date. (Maybe he never post because he is half French/Cuban!) Just picking on him...

My brother and I have great time talking about the weeks posting with a nice cigar/Wine/Rum. This site keep us going when we are down, and give us something to look forward to on a bad week.

Once again bare with me on my English. My English is not the greatest in the world, and sometimes it is hard to express myself in a way that reflects my thoughts.

On the CA topic I myself look forward to CA magazine releases, and even the reviews. The magazine over all is very nice, and sometimes provides me with some great photos, and information on my home land (Cuba). It is hard sometimes to get information here in the US. The funny thing is I get more information on Cuba here on this site then the news.

On the Rocky Patel if you get a chance pick up the Sun Grown it my type of cigar. I meant no disrespect to anyone who helps keep Cigars alive in a time that it is becoming harder, and harder to smoke one.

Thank you

Carlos AKA Miami101