Cuba Questions

[Rogers72]

As an American who has never been to Cuba, I have a few questions about the general attitude of the society and life under the Castros. I'm sure Rob and some others who frequent there and maintain such relationships are the best to ask about what the "word on the street" is.

How does the average Cuban citizen view the Revolution, the Castros and thier government? Heroes and Liberators or Oppressors?

I am sure there are factions (large or small) who are very disgruntled and have been for decades. Is there ever any rhetoric about a revolution, etc.? Do any of the people actually have the means to do anything to bring about change?

Are there people (not in prisons) who want very badly to leave the country or is the average working class guy pretty content?

Some of these questions probably overlap and I am sure there are people on both sides of the fence. I guess I want to know how strong each side is. Any insight into the minds of the people would be great!

[aavkk]

Great post I too am looking forward to some insight from those who are familiar with the country firsthand.

[cigarros]

The majority of people on Cuba lives by a principle: Better be born lucky than rich ;-) We can't understand their point of view

[harryleech]

» As an American who has never been to Cuba, I have a few questions about the

» general attitude of the society and life under the Castros. I'm sure Rob

» and some others who frequent there and maintain such relationships are the

» best to ask about what the "word on the street" is.

»

»

» How does the average Cuban citizen view the Revolution, the Castros and

» thier government? Heroes and Liberators or Oppressors?

»

»

»

»

»

» I am sure there are factions (large or small) who are very disgruntled and

» have been for decades. Is there ever any rhetoric about a revolution,

» etc.? Do any of the people actually have the means to do anything to

» bring about change?

»

»

» Are there people (not in prisons) who want very badly to leave the country

» or is the average working class guy pretty content?

»

»

» Some of these questions probably overlap and I am sure there are people on

» both sides of the fence. I guess I want to know how strong each side is.

» Any insight into the minds of the people would be great!

I've only been to Cuba on two occasions, for two weeks each time (I say only because I don't wish to pretend to be an expert on the subject as I'm sure Rob and others who have been there a lot and have many Cuban friends can give you a better idea) and my lack of Spanish means that I'm restricted to a straw poll of Cubans who want to talk politics, can speak ok English and like to drink rum.

The general attitude that I've found in Cuba to the way things are (from the son of a communist party member and army officer from the revolutionary era to the guide we had in Trinidad last time who was saving up to 'escape') was that while they appreciate the benefits of the revolution they are sick of things the way they are right now in the 21st century. One guy put it quite eloquently and succinctly when he said "I love Fidel, but I wish he would go away!" His point was that the revolution was necessary but that Fidel needs to retire and let someone younger take over. Shortly after that he did step down temporarily, then permanently and Raoul seems to be making some attempts (or lip service) to reforms. Raoul can't last too long in power due to his age and if the next person is from the post revolutionary era then I think change will happen much quicker.

Common amongst all of the people that we chatted with was a love for Americans and American culture, but a contempt for American foreign policy, the embargo and a certain generation of exiled in Miami. A friend of the guy who was so adamant that Fidel had to step down (who nodded and readily agreed with this view) said that if America (or some Cuban Americans) invaded tomorrow that he and everyone he knew would fight tooth and nail to repel them. His explanation was that they have seen what has happened elsewhere when right-wing regimes take over in Latin America and they also saw what happened when the Soviet Union fell and wanted slower, more sustainable change. Cubans, like most of us, don't like being told what to do and seem to be among the proudest people that I’ve ever met (very Latin.) They were particularly scathing of exiles in Miami who had recently (this was a few years ago) elected a 'President of Cuba' while at the same time they were also mocking quietly the 'Fidelista's.'

(One of whom called the Dad of one of the guys who we were talking to, who called the bar and gave out to his son on the phone for bad mouthing the government in front of tourists. It seemed that he didn't mind him bitching and moaning about the government so much as doing it in front of the tourists; as if it were some sort of private family feud and that they had to put on a good face at dinner and that the family could squabble amongst themselves once we were gone!)

As I said, only my limited experience from 2 x trips and a couple of bottles of rum. Like any situation, it's complicated: And until such times as they are real free and fair elections in Cuba I guess none of us will know what 'most' Cubans think. The guys we talked to were 25-45, none were anywhere near old enough to have been involved in the revolution and all were well educated. One was a psychiatric nurse, one was engineering graduate (working as a taxi driver), one a bar man, one a tour guide... A mixed bag. I would imagine that those old enough to remember pre-revolutionary Cuba would have different, more pro-revolutionary ideals than the younger generations, that there would be an urban rural divide etc. But from what I’ve heard from others who have travelled there more than I have, it seems others have experienced a similar dichotomy (I want change, but I don’t want any foreign country telling us how to change. etc)

On a separate note, (and this is just MHO, not anything I discussed with anyone there) I think that the quickest thing that America could do to effect change in Cuba would be to lift the embargo and normalise relations quickly. China is a much bigger basket case when it comes to human rights issues and general poverty of its population and world trade with China has done wonders to speeding up China’s normalisation. The Communist old guard have been able to use the Embargo as an excuse for staying in power for too long.

[Rogers72]

Good info. I can understand how Fidel could be both a hero and a villain to the same people when you look at how much of a mess life was before the Revolution. I can see how you may hold someone or a certain group in such high regard for what they did decades ago that you almost put up with what they have done since.

[bassman]

harryleech's comment's are spot on. I've been to Cuba 2 weeks each year in 2001, 02 & 03 and what i was told was pretty much the same. The Cubans are quite friendly to USA PEOPLE, but are not thrill with USA GOVERNMENT policy & those who speak English made that distinction clear.

Also, Fidel had the safety valve of arresting some of those who were unhappy with his rule and allowing others to simply float away to Miami.

[El Presidente]

» How does the average Cuban citizen view the Revolution, the Castros and

» thier government? Heroes and Liberators or Oppressors?

There is still support for castro predominantly amongst the over 55's. Yet many of those that once supported him are dissilusioned and are prepared in private to concede they were wrong. Very few under 50's privately support Castro and the regime. They know it has been a disaster.

» I am sure there are factions (large or small) who are very disgruntled and

» have been for decades. Is there ever any rhetoric about a revolution,

» etc.? Do any of the people actually have the means to do anything to

» bring about change?

In the main they do not want a revolution. They had one and look where that got them. What they are seeking is intelligent progressive economic and personal freedom policies that raises the standard of living for all Cubans (not just those in Havana). They want real wages, real opportunities, real freedoms. They want a controlled evolution as opposed to the risks that come with revolution.

Things are so bad that they realise it will take two generations to take Cuba to where it should be as an economic and social Jewel of the Caribbean. They want to start now.

» Are there people (not in prisons) who want very badly to leave the country

» or is the average working class guy pretty content?

Again in the main they would love to leave. To work overseas, develop personally and professionally and send money back to family left behind. I haven't met a content working class Cuban which is understandable on 70 cents a day.

» Some of these questions probably overlap and I am sure there are people on

» both sides of the fence. I guess I want to know how strong each side is.

» Any insight into the minds of the people would be great!

The Cubans I know are intelligent, articulate, big hearted people with hopes and dreams like everyone else. Unfortunately through no fault of thier own they are trapped. They understand that there are no easy answers. They have no assets. Should the regime collapse and Cuba open up overnight to the rest of the world then they and their families face a situation where they will be competing for housing and essential services against well cashed up foreighners. They are well aware that while many in Havana will profit, many in the rest of the country will fall even further behind. Will essential social security nets be maintained? Will the cost of living be controlled? Will Miami exiles come and kick them out of their apartments and homes? There is an argument that the strongest will survive but after 50 years of Socialism even amongst those who are desperate for immediate change there is concern for the "average Cuban" that they will not be left behind. Change is innevitable. They would simply like to control the pace and direction of it so that all benefit.

There is no beef with the American people as opposed to the American Government whom they despise. There is however a great deal of trepidation towards Cuban exiles in Miami.

[Claudius]

» Do any of the people actually have the means to do anything to

» bring about change?

No. What are teachers, farmers, doctors supposed to do against the army? The people will only be able to bring about change by armed force, and the person they want to change is the one controlling the army.

[El Presidente]

» » Do any of the people actually have the means to do anything to

» » bring about change?

»

» No. What are teachers, farmers, doctors supposed to do against the army?

» The people will only be able to bring about change by armed force, and the

» person they want to change is the one controlling the army.

And don't forget the police and secret poiice ;-)

[Rogers72]

All very insightful. I think the average citizen's fear of the Miami exiles is well warranted. Hopefully they will soon have a young forward thinking leader or group of leaders who can put systems in place to prevent much outside speculation until things have stablilized for those in country. Is all of the housing and land currently government property or do any of the people actually own homes/apartments/land? If it is government owned, what decides which citizens get to live where? Is there much class distinction amongst the working class? I.E. Does a Level 9 Torcedor have a much better quality of life than the guy who sweeps floors at the newspaper office? A top exec. at Habanos S.A.? A high-level government official? A guy who hustles tourist by selling fake cigars?

[bassman]

» All very insightful. I think the average citizen's fear of the Miami

» exiles is well warranted. Hopefully they will soon have a young forward

» thinking leader or group of leaders who can put systems in place to

» prevent much outside speculation until things have stablilized for those

» in country. Is all of the housing and land currently government property

» or do any of the people actually own homes/apartments/land? If it is

» government owned, what decides which citizens get to live where? Is there

» much class distinction amongst the working class? I.E. Does a Level 9

» Torcedor have a much better quality of life than the guy who sweeps floors

» at the newspaper office? A top exec. at Habanos S.A.? A high-level

» government official? A guy who hustles tourist by selling fake cigars?

Those who have access to dollars, euros, British Pounds, etc have a much better standard of living. No imported goods can be bought with pesos & Cuba doesn't make very much in the way of consumer goods.

[Morientes50]

As a son of Cuban immigrants, I feel I should add one point. Most Cuban-Americans living in Miami do not want to take over Cuban property, if the regime falls. Yes, there was/is a small minority of the old timers that want what was taken from them when they left the Island and that hate Castro more than is logical. But most only want the best for Cuba and Cubans.

The younger generation (i'm 31 myself) are either disinterested in Cuban affairs or want the embargo lifted. Their home is the U.S. The older generation that came in 59 are dying out. The living have been in the U.S. so long that they no longer consider them selves "exiles" but, instead, see their future in the U.S.

Cubans have been taught to fear the Miami Cubans but really they have more to fear from their own Government. The Cuban-Amer. often get bashed on cigar forums (i'm thinking mostly of another forum, not this one) but don't believe the hype. We are not all secretly hatching future plans for the Island. Most are happy living in the great city they have built in Miami, FL.

[Morientes50]

Just another point. If a dictator took over your country (Australia, the u.s. etc.) and you had to leave a country you love, you would probably be a little pissed off also.

I often kid my 2 (surviving) grandparents how they blame everything that goes wrong in the world on Castro (as if he was the Devil or something :-D ) But I realize that what happened to them was traumatic. And even though I poke fun at them playfully, I realize I would probably feel the same way if I lived in their shoes.

Ironically, I probably could not afford my Cuban cigar collection if I lived in Cuba. I would also miss American sports too much:-D