Punch Culebras circa 1968 ??????

[Moglman]

Can you have 25 Culebras in a box? or should that be divisible by 3?

[jakebarnes]

» Can you have 25 Culebras in a box? or should that be divisible by 3?

that probably means there are 8 bundles and then traditional single in the box. Im kinda mad that the new Partagas Culebras dont have the single in the new packaging.

At least that is my thought for that packaging.

Pete

[Professor Twain]

I have a box of 2000 Partagas Culebras, they come in aluminum foil packaging and have strings tying them together instead of the ribbons. The Partagas were machine made, and had one single twisted cigar to complete the box of 25.

Would be interesting if someone who has been in the game for a long time could comment on the packaging with ribbons, and also whether these were hand or machine made.

They look gorgeous, and I have had some great aged machine made Punch cigars. Looks like a real find, are you considering purchasing them?

[Trevor2118]

I should have noted before that I have found no reference anywhere to a Punch brand Culebras ever being made. It is not listed in Nees, Perelmans, or Rudmans.

Nee states (page 94) "The H. Upmann, Romeo y Julieta and Partagas were the only brands which had produced them (culebras) since the revolution".

[Mark Twain]

» I should have noted before that I have found no reference anywhere to a

» Punch brand Culebras ever being made. It is not listed in Nees,

» Perelmans, or Rudmans.

»

» Nee states (page 94) "The H. Upmann, Romeo y Julieta and Partagas were the

» only brands which had produced them (culebras) since the revolution".

They look hand made. I think that they're interesting whether they're real or fake. You know there is this one guy on the board who loves collecting interesting fake cigars for his fake files. I'd contact Ginseng and see what he has to say about them.

[El Presidente]

Great info Wilkey :-)

I haven't seen those before and have no records of them. The lack of records is no suprise as record keeping was abysmal by the Cubans.

[Professor Twain]

I did a google search on "Punch Culebras" and found a post on FOH by Tom Bolivar mentioning Punch Culebras in this thread on the Partagas Culebras:

[link]http://www.friendsofhabanos.com/board_entry.php?id=45810&page=0&category=Habanos+Review+Forum&order=last_answer&descasc=DESC[/link]

This thread also shows some closeups of the machine made Partagas Culebras, and you will see that they have rounded heads and are tied with twine.

if you google "punch culebras" with the quotes, a number of French pages come up, anyone who speaks French might be able to look at these and see what they have to say.

[Trevor2118]

» The box looks OK. The seal position (not folded on the crest) was

» common on circa 1970's boxes.

My comment on seal location was based on images in Nees, pages 372, 373, 379, & 380.....all early 1970s Punch boxes.

I too am doubtfull of these, as surely someone would have catalogued them before. If the advice was not stated as coming from the Regional Importer 5th Avenue ??? this has to be checked of course.

Cheers, Trevor.

[Professor Twain]

A google image search of "Punch culebras" leads to a page including a small photo of:

Jacques Lacan con uno de sus famosos puros "punch culebras de Davidoff".

[link]http://www.caretas.com.pe/1433/cultural/cultura1.htm[/link]

Lacan was a French psychoanalyst.

The picture is small but he does appear to be smoking a culebra. Not definitive evidence that they were made but a clue.

[Trevor2118]

Sorry, must read thread first:-D

This is a quote from Toms thread (as per Profs thread above).

Not mine.....appologies.

"In a German board somebody posted some info about Punch Culebras. The German distributer certifies genuineness and says the sticks are from 1968".

Tom, can you help here??

[Tampa1257]

» Sorry, must read thread first:-D

»

» In a German board somebody posted some info about Punch Culebras. The

» German distributer certifies genuineness and says the sticks are from

» 1968.

»

» Tom, can you help here??

Trevor, your post is nearly what Tom posted on the other thread 6 months ago. No one picked that up i believe. I would still need 5th Avenue's assurance in writing as to the providence. Interesting to say the least!

[Trevor2118]

» Trevor, your post is nearly what Tom posted on the other thread 6 months ago.

Appologies......this was poorly written. This was intended to be a quote from Toms thread. Sorry to mislead.

[Tampa1257]

» » Trevor, your post is nearly what Tom posted on the other thread 6 months

» ago.

»

» Appologies......this was poorly written. This was intended to be a quote

» from Toms thread. Sorry to mislead.

Trevor, I read it as a statement from whomever has these Punch Culebras for sale as a verification of authenticity. Not as you were misleading anything. I just found it odd that two different European contacts were stating nearly the same thing about a Punch Culebras when there has not been any proof it was even made.

Many people don't want you to be taken for something that might not be authentic.

[Trevor2118]

» Trevor, I read it as a statement from whomever has these Punch Culebras for sale as a verification of authenticity.

Tampa....they were not being offered for sale (as far as I know).

The information was sent to me for information and (possibly ?) inclusion in my website.

When the person gets back to me with further information I will repost.

[Trevor2118]

» if you google "punch culebras" with the quotes, a number of French pages come up, anyone who speaks French might be able to look at these and see what they have to say.

Prof. Almost all google pages have a translate button....hit that & then you can read the translation from French to English....you get some hilarious results.:-D

[Jimmy2]

Maybe they were made for a certain store and produced in small numbers and made by hand by the store's request.

[Professor Twain]

» » if you google "punch culebras" with the quotes, a number of French pages

» come up, anyone who speaks French might be able to look at these and see

» what they have to say.

»

» Prof. Almost all google pages have a translate button....hit that & then

» you can read the translation from French to English....you get some

» hilarious results.:-D

Thanks, the page about Lacan suggests that they came from Davidoff.

[Tampa1257]

» Some time back, I was asked about Punch Culebras. I said I've never heard

» of them. Well now I have !!! maybe??

»

» I was sent the following two photographs by the same person and was

» advised that he got the info from German 5th Avenue and it was a 1968

» production. I have asked for further information from him.

»

» In the meantime, what do members think?.

»

» The box looks OK. The seal position (not folded on the crest) was common

» on circa 1970's boxes. Unfortunately, the images are low resolution.

»

»

»

»

What concerns me from the photos are the following issues, The Figurado head on a machine made item using ribbon where Twine is normally used. I am thinking that the oiliness and clean looking wrapper for a 40+ year old cigar is a little much. I have no proof, I would be asking a bit more about the providence of the cigars.

[Ginseng]

» Some time back, I was asked about Punch Culebras. I said I've never heard

» of them. Well now I have !!! maybe??

»

» I was sent the following two photographs by the same person and was

» advised that he got the info from German 5th Avenue and it was a 1968

» production. I have asked for further information from him.

»

» In the meantime, what do members think?.

»

» The box looks OK. The seal position (not folded on the crest) was common

» on circa 1970's boxes. Unfortunately, the images are low resolution.

»

»

»

Trevor,

This is quite the mystery. My own experience with cigars from that era is darn close to nil. However, I did just happen to come upon some sealed boxes of mid-late 1970's Montecristo Tubos. See the photo below. Note the placement of the seal.

As for these Punch cigars, Tampa raised some excellent points. The yellow ribbon is an inconsistency and the conical heads are particularly worrisome. The old culebras came with a foil overwrap. I wonder why these are naked. If these are truly from that era, then the unique foil overwraps would have been nearly definitive. Missing that particular piece of the packaging is a very serious omission. Beyond that, it is very hard to tell much of anything else from the photos provided.

I know that if I wanted obfuscate critical details, I'd generate small, low resolution images instead of larger, high res ones. In fact, as evidenced by the EXIF/XMP data in those files, these photographs were manipulated in Adobe Elements so they could have been made large and clear and still be modest in file size. The person who sent them to you specifically chose not to do so.

Here are the images slightly massaged. Doesn't help much though.

If you do happen to lay hands on either the cigars or the packaging, I'd love to at least look at them.

Best,

Wilkey

[Trevor2118]

Some time back, I was asked about Punch Culebras. I said I've never heard of them. Well now I have !!! maybe??

I was sent the following two photographs by the same person and was advised that he got the info from German 5th Avenue and it was a 1968 production. I have asked for further information from him.

In the meantime, what do members think?.

The box looks OK. The seal position (not folded on the crest) was common on circa 1970's boxes. Unfortunately, the images are low resolution.