Humidity Bead Behavior - Tell Me What Ya Think...

[Ethernut]

Read this over and let me know what you think. This one has me fairly curious.

I bought a new Humidor a few weeks ago. It's a 100 Count box, roughly 11x9x10 inches. Internal volume is of the humi is 990 cu Inches. I bought 4 ounces of 70% humidity beads (I'm going to replace them with 65%) in a perforated tube. The bead calculator says that 4 ounces is good fo up to 2160 cu Inches. So I have twice the beads I need based on the calculators advice and that was the intent to have a fast humi recovery.

Up until last week I was using the crappy analog hygrometer that came with the humidor which I didn't trust. I finally ordered one of those Temp/Hygro digital adjustable hygrometers with a Boveda 75.5% RH Calibration kit.

I calibrated the Hygro and popped it in my humidor. It settled in on 65% RH and never went any higher. Strange, I thought, maybe I was sent 65% RH beads by mistake. I had 2 69% Boveda Humidipaks and I inserted them into the Humi. Within 4 hrs it was at 68 Percent. So I did what any other chap would do, I very kindly wrote the place I bought the 70% beads from and suggested that the beads shipped to me might have been 65% beads. They sent me out a new 4oz tube of 70% beads on Monday. They were very nice to deal with.

Not being one to sit back and wait I did some more experimenting. I put the Digital Hygro back into the calibration kit and checked it, it checked ok. I then put the digital hygro in a bag with the 2 69% boveda paks and it was spot on. THEN I put it in a bag with the bead tube and it read dead-nuts 70%.

"Crap!" I says to myself. "I guess they are 70% beads after all."

So here is the situation. The beads are back in the humi and have been there all night. In an attempt to get better airflow out of the beads, I found a small, wide, thin, plastic bowl and cut it down so the beads level out just below the top. I used a drill to make a BUNCH of small perforations in the bottom and side of the bowl. It didn't make any difference, I had the same humidity results with the tube. This morning, the Hygro reads 65% on the spot, not 70%, 65%. The Humi temp is 70 Degrees exactly.

Knowing that it needs to be 65% for Habanos anyway, this is good, but I 'm still looking for some insight into why this is happening.

If the hygro reads 65% then that means the beads can't reach an equilibrium with the humi and will run out much faster. That's not what I want.

1. Does the problem most likely indicate that In this case I would need more beads?

2. Does the problem most likely indicate that my humi isn't sealed well or has some other issue?

3. It would appear that the beads don't react as quickly as a humidipak. Have you found that to be true?

4. Something I didn't think of?

5. All of the above? :-D

The replacement 4oz of 70% beads will arrive in 2 days. I'm interested in putting them in the Humi alone, and along with the ones I have just to see how it reacts. Either way, it turns out it was not the vendors fault and I will make things right with them for their kindness after I get a resolution as I'm intending to buy some 65% beads anyway.

Thanks All...

The Ether...

[Colt45]

Well, first I'd have to ask you how much distilled water you wet the beads with?

I'd say you'd want about 60 to 70% of the beads to be clear after wetting.

[Ethernut]

» Well, first I'd have to ask you how much distilled water you wet the beads

» with?

» I'd say you'd want about 60 to 70% of the beads to be clear after wetting.

That is the case there are clear beads and white beads with most being clear.

[Ethernut]

» Well, first I'd have to ask you how much distilled water you wet the beads

» with?

» I'd say you'd want about 60 to 70% of the beads to be clear after wetting.

Actually I just went and looked at them for a sanity check. I saw no white beads, mostly milky and clear beads. with 90% being clear.

[Colt45]

» That is the case there are clear beads and white beads with most being

» clear.

Next questions - just to be clear, when you calibrated your hygro, it read 75%?

And, what is the approximate temperature of the area where you keep you humidor?

[Ethernut]

» » That is the case there are clear beads and white beads with most being

» » clear.

» Next questions - just to be clear, when you calibrated your hygro, it read

» 75%?

» And, what is the approximate temperature of the area where you keep you

» humidor?

Actually it initially read 73% and I adjusted it up to ticks two 75. I let it sit in the kit for 36 hrs.

Temp around my humidor is 68-72 degrees depending on time of day.

[Ethernut]

» » That is the case there are clear beads and white beads with most being

» » clear.

» Next questions - just to be clear, when you calibrated your hygro, it read

» 75%?

» And, what is the approximate temperature of the area where you keep you

» humidor?

And just to add another piece of info, when I did the beads-in-the-bag test with the Hygro, I charged the beads and got them too wet. I was up to 77% in the bag. So, I removed the tube and set it infront of a fan (in the house it's about 47% RH) to striaghten it out. I checked the beads and they were white/milky and clear and that is when I got the 70% check with the hygro and the bead tube.

[Colt45]

» Actually it initially read 73% and I adjusted it up to ticks to 75. I let

» it sit in the kit for 36 hrs.

»

» Temp around my humidor is 68-72 degrees depending on time of day.

I'm at a loss then. Everything sounds right. I have a similar size humi with two

puck 65% 50s. They have maintained 63 to 65% humidity all winter long.

[Ethernut]

» » Actually it initially read 73% and I adjusted it up to ticks to 75. I

» let

» » it sit in the kit for 36 hrs.

» »

» » Temp around my humidor is 68-72 degrees depending on time of day.

»

» I'm at a loss then. Everything sounds right. I have a similar size humi

» with two

» puck 65% 50s. They have maintained 63 to 65% humidity all winter long.

Man I'm right there with you. *shrugs* It took a lot for me to humble myself and ask for help :-D

I just cant figure it out. It doesnt make sense.

[Colt45]

» It took a lot for me to humble myself and ask for help :-D

»

Sharing info is what the forum is for :-)

See what happens with the new beads, and let us know.

[Mark Twain]

» 1. Does the problem most likely indicate that In this case I would need

» more beads?

Possibly, but I would try a few other things first.

»

» 2. Does the problem most likely indicate that my humi isn't sealed well

» or has some other issue?

It could very well be a bad seal. Did you season your humidor before putting beads into it?

»

» 3. It would appear that the beads don't react as quickly as a humidipak.

» Have you found that to be true?

Of course. Beads take time to work. You SHOULD NOT have 90% clear beads. This is bad. Beads that you buy come with a set point around 65% to 70%. If you over humidify them for too long, you can actually change the set point on the beads and raise the RH.

»

» 4. Something I didn't think of?

»

Seal, seasoning humi. . .then slowly transfering cigars to humidor.

» 5. All of the above? :-D

»

Don't trust your digital hygrometer over using beads. I know you've calibrated it, but it should have a natural variation +/- several degrees. Keep your beads 60-70% wet and 30-40% dry and they should work fine.

[Professor Twain]

» Of course. Beads take time to work. You SHOULD NOT have 90% clear

» beads. This is bad. Beads that you buy come with a set point around 65% to

» 70%. If you over humidify them for too long, you can actually change the

» set point on the beads and raise the RH.

This is an interesting comment. What is the source of this information on beads changing their set point, and the logic behind this? (I'm not doubting this but want to know why you say this is true).

I should also note, I use 65% beads in most of my humidors, and the humidors stay between 62-65% for the most part. But I ordered a pack of "70% beads" for my son's humidor. No matter what we do, that humidor won't go over 65%.

[n2advnture]

At what temperature did you use the "calibration pack" when calibrating the digital hygrometers.

It has been my experience that the further you get away from 70 degrees, the less reliable the packs are.

~Mark

[Mark Twain]

» » Of course. Beads take time to work. You SHOULD NOT have 90% clear

» » beads. This is bad. Beads that you buy come with a set point around 65%

» to

» » 70%. If you over humidify them for too long, you can actually change

» the

» » set point on the beads and raise the RH.

»

» This is an interesting comment. What is the source of this information on

» beads changing their set point, and the logic behind this? (I'm not

» doubting this but want to know why you say this is true).

»

» I should also note, I use 65% beads in most of my humidors, and the

» humidors stay between 62-65% for the most part. But I ordered a pack of

» "70% beads" for my son's humidor. No matter what we do, that humidor

» won't go over 65%.

Source that I'm getting most of the info from comes from an experiment done on another board. A member conditioned KL (Kitty litter) to use as humidity control. This type of silca kitty litter is the same as humidification beads. It's oderless and quite cheap, I think $15-$20 for 8 pounds.

[link]http://www.cigarpass.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=32045&st=0[/link]

[Freefallguy]

I’m dizzy trying to figure out what RH you’re trying to achieve.

However, I’ve found the best way to charge beads is to place some wet paper towels in a small plastic container and set the container in the humi next to the beads. The beads absorb water vapor, which in essence is distilled water. In that way no decay causing contaminants directly reach the beads. It matters not if you have sticks in there, the beads keep the RH level as intended. Bon chance.

[n2advnture]

» Source that I'm getting most of the info from comes from an experiment

» done on another board. A member conditioned KL (Kitty litter) to use as

» humidity control. This type of silca kitty litter is the same as

» humidification beads. It's oderless and quite cheap, I think $15-$20 for 8

» pounds.

»

Silicas are the same but the chemical composition is different.

~Mark

[Ethernut]

» I’m dizzy trying to figure out what RH you’re trying to achieve.

»

»

» However, I’ve found the best way to charge beads is to place some wet

» paper towels in a small plastic container and set the container in the

» humi next to the beads. The beads absorb water vapor, which in

» essence is distilled water. In that way no decay causing contaminants

» directly reach the beads. It matters not if you have sticks in there, the

» beads keep the RH level as intended. Bon chance.

Well, naturally since I have 70% beads and 70% beads are supposed to keep the humidity at 70% and mine is staying at 65% one might question why? :-)

I'll try your charing method. Sound good!

Thx

The Ether.,

[Ethernut]

» At what temperature did you use the "calibration pack" when calibrating the

» digital hygrometers.

»

» It has been my experience that the further you get away from 70 degrees,

» the less reliable the packs are.

»

» ~Mark

I've actually calibrated it twice. The second time it was at 70-72 degrees..

I've come home today and my Hygro is reading 64%. I can only shake my head..

:-)

Ether

[Ethernut]

» It could very well be a bad seal. Did you season your humidor before

» putting beads into it?

Yes I did, I coated it the entirety of the inside with distilled water and a sponge and sat the sponge filled with distilled water within the humi and waited a day.

If I take out the beads and put my two 69% humidipaks in, the humidity will quicky increase, so the Humi is sensitive to the increase which would indicate wood saturation.

» Of course. Beads take time to work. You SHOULD NOT have 90% clear

» beads. This is bad. Beads that you buy come with a set point around 65% to

» 70%. If you over humidify them for too long, you can actually change the

» set point on the beads and raise the RH.

Understood, but even if that has happed (which I think is unlikely this early in the game), wouldn't the humidity be higher than the 64-65% that I'm getting now?

» Seal, seasoning humi. . .then slowly transfering cigars to

» humidor.

My humi has a glass front with does not seal against the door very well but it holds 68% when the humidipaks are in there. I could do more to seal it. and probably should.

»

» Don't trust your digital hygrometer over using beads. I know you've

» calibrated it, but it should have a natural variation +/- several degrees.

» Keep your beads 60-70% wet and 30-40% dry and they should work fine.

»

Thanks a bunch for your help Mark!

The Ether..

[chef2275]

ether...

i had the same racking of the brain, trying to figure those things out. Stopped thinking about it. The damn things have not gone over 68% for a whole year. And that is in a cooler. But if anybody figures this out let me know. I thought the same thing, as 70 is 70. But?

chef

[Ethernut]

Chef I'm kind of thinking like you. I'm going to have to concede and move on with life.. :-)

I dried out the beads and balanced them better and have them back in the humi. I also put the hygro back into the calibration bag at exactly 70 degrees to ensure that it's correct. We'll see tomorrow if the hygro is retarded. :-D

[Ethernut]

Not to be beaten, i had to figure this bugger out. All the evidence pointed to my Hygo so (as I said above) I gave it a nice long soak in the 75% boveda calibration kit.

Guess what? After more than 24hrs it read 73%. So I adjusted it up two clicks to 75. My Humidor now reads between 67% and 68% with the 70% beads. I have 65% beads on the way from Cigarmony and will be desposing of my 70% bead stock.

If anyone wants approximately 7-8 ounces of 70% beads, PM me and I'll send you my leftovers.

Thanks for your help everyone! This is truly one of the great forums.

Ether...

[CoryOllis]

» Chef I'm kind of thinking like you. I'm going to have to concede and move

» on with life.. :-)

»

Excellent advise! Give yourself a cookie. :-P

It's probably a combination of an imperfect seal and the lag time of the beads to compensate. As long as the RH is OK and your rotating your stock with some frequency, you should be OK, IMHO.

[Gryphon]

I have been thinking about this???

Could it be something as simple as a mislabled box of beads??

[Ethernut]

» I have been thinking about this???

»

» Could it be something as simple as a mislabled box of beads??

Gryphon, man I really appreciate the reply. In the end I believe it to be the Hygro was maladjusted or just a piece of crap.

I ordered 1 lb of 65% beads and put 8 oz of the beads in my humi without wetting them to help dry out the humi. As small as my Humi is, it has taken about 5 days to bring the humidity back down to 66%. I guess I'll just let them to their thing for a while and monitor it.

Thanks for thinking of me though!

Ether