Partages Real or Fake!

[Ginseng]

» Hi Guys

» I got this box from a friend some time ago, and got into a big debate with

» one of my friends about these Cigars. We reviewed the box and the Cigars in

» it. From the looks of the box it appears to be 100% real, but the Cigar

» labels look a little different. The print looks a bit different.

»

» The cigars were great smokes, but from the looks of it they might be

» fakes. The box came from Peru as a gift.

»

» We're looking to end the debate, so we'd appreciate any insight as to

» whether these appear legit or fake. Let me know your thoughts.

It's impossible to tell anything from the photos you have posted.

The NOP code and the HS seal prefix correspond appropriately. The NOP code has been seen on other cigars from this period. The chevron leaf on the Habanos stick should not be off the box like that but then these look like small cigars so a slight amount of foldover is not unusual.

The country of origin is a concern as the details of the provenance were not provided.

Wilkey

[DrAlejandro]

its hard to tell but anything from latin america is suspect to me right off the bat... that being said they're mille fleurs, not exactly the most profitable cigars to take so much trouble to fake. JMO

[Jimmy2]

Box code NOP was used around Sep to Dec 05.

But most hb and hh on the seal i have seen have been in the months of Nov and Dec of 05.

Yours is showing HS on your seal and its in SeP 05 on your box which i think it should put it around late Dec early Jan 06.

Also the factory and date looks like it was stamped as one which is a no no.

Now i have seen code and date stamped next to each other but it's not even and always a gap in between stamps.

Most of the time you will see code on top and date on the bottom.

What i am trying to say is they use two differant stamps one for the Date and code.

Thats what has me thinking about your sticks as being not real but you never now about Cuba.

I think Mille Fleurs are machine made not hand made and have a pointed head not rounded i seen it wrapped in cellophane.

I do know they make a dress box but dont know if the head is differant from the cellohanes one's.

Also the Partagas - Mille Fleurs really don't cost much and i don't see a big market for these as being fake but you never know with the counterfeiter's.

I would love to know what others have to say..

Lets see what Rob says..

Mille Fleurs size is 42 ring by 5 1/8 inches here a good way to tell..

[Jimmy2]

Thats the thing your box is showing me that they are not real.

The seal HS is not matching up with the month on the bottom of the box at least 3 months before it should have come out.

Also these are saying hand made when they are not the only thing i can see is the cap is finished by hand.

The date and factory code look as if it is one stamp.

Let see what the other say as this is a hobby we are always learning..

[El Presidente]

Carlos...looks fine to me.

Hand Made is now referred to all cigars "Finished by Hand" in Cuba. I don't agree with it but alas that is what they have decided.

I haven't seen a faked box of these before. Just no money in it.

Bands can always be slightly off. Have seen it many times as well as poorly aligned stickers and embossing.

More importantly...what did they taste like? Should be medium bodied bit some Partagas pepper spice and earth. No great complexity but a good yard/fishing/camping cigar.

[Jimmy2]

Well there you go and it shows i would be a bad detective.

[jqmunro]

Hey, The Habanos, Hecho En Cuba, etc on the bottom... is there a depression felt in the wood... it's hard to tell from the photo but it almost looks stamped on the wood with ink... like I said it's really hard to tell from a photo, but usually those things are "ironed" with a hot iron and no ink is used at all... if it's ironed in you should feel a depression of the letters when you run your fingers over it.

[Professor Twain]

This thread is turning into a jumble of good and bad information. Concerning the box codes, I looked back at my recent boxes, they are all stamped and not burned; and they are a mixture of showing up on two lines versus one line.

[Tampa1257]

Hand Made is now referred to all cigars "Finished by Hand" in Cuba. I don't agree with it but alas that is what they have decided.

More importantly...what did they taste like? Should be medium bodied bit some Partagas pepper spice and earth. No great complexity but a good yard/fishing/camping cigar.

These were the two issues that had me thinking. I have a Box of 1998 Ramón Allones Mille Fleurs that do not have the "Totalmente a mano" on the box, which came through a Swiss vendor supplied from Intertabak. The cigars taste wonderful. Ever since Habanos S.A. changed last year with regards to Premium Hand Rolled and Machine Made cigars, I am still figuring out all the differences in packaging that have come out. Now according to what Rob is stating, a Machine Made, Hand finished cigar such as the Mille Fleurs is packaged with the "Totalmente a mano" on the bottom. Interesting development.

[Jimmy2]

It's Crazy i tell you.

I don't think i gave bad info i have seen everything up here in the North East with counterfeits and have seen everything from Hoyo tubed Churchills to tubed San Cristobal de la H. El Morro's.

I think i am pretty darn good at spotting fakes there was something in the picture i did not like so the rule's is stay away.

But also i have seen crazy things as far as i inconsistencies out of Cuba which has to open up your eyes a little more as being fake or real.

I also stated that they were cheap cigars and not probably worth counterfeiting.

So people like to get a word in after the fact.

[Miami101]

Thanks guys for the feed back!

It was not the cost of the cigars, since it was one of our 1st Cuban boxes. It has been very, very hard to get Cuban cigars down here. When we get some they go very fast.

That night we debated about this box, and the cigars. The smoke was great...we enjoyed them. It was very hard to hold on to the last one, which you see in the photos.

[Bolivariano]

» Thanks guys for the feed back!

» It was not the cost of the cigars, since it was one of our 1st Cuban

» boxes. It has been very, very hard to get Cuban cigars down here. When we

» get some they go very fast.

»

» That night we debated about this box, and the cigars. The smoke was

» great...we enjoyed them. It was very hard to hold on to the last one,

» which you see in the photos.

I guess we will never know carlos :-P

but if we go from what El Presidente says then I found them to be full bodied and harsh.

[Claudius]

» Now i have seen code and date stamped next to each other but it's not even and always a gap in between stamps.

I think there is something unusual about that box. I agree about there being no point in faking them, but hey, people make fake quarters. Go figure why...

I cannot recall having seen a code stamped on one single line since 2000; I just looked through about 50 boxes of cigars. All of the post 2000 stuff has the code on 2 lines (factory and underneath the month and year), be it dress boxes or cabs, without exception. The only boxes I have where the whole code is a single line are NIVELACUSO boxes. I dont think that necessarily makes these MF fake, but it's unusual AFAIAA.

[jqmunro]

» This thread is turning into a jumble of good and bad information.

» Concerning the box codes, I looked back at my recent boxes, they are all

» stamped and not burned; and they are a mixture of showing up on two lines

» versus one line.

Of course the box codes are stamped... The question related to the box "irons" which include the three lines "Habanos S.A. , HECHO EN CUBA, Totalmente a Mano") these are all burned into the box... there should be a depression in the wood for the letters. Not to say an ink stamp wouldn't be able to make a depression if it's stamped very hard; but if there is no depression, there are no genuine habanos in the box.

[kluck]

I dislike threads like this (real vs. fake) they always come up with good and bad information. To me other than the factory code being on the same line as the date stamp they look legit. I can't imagine faking such an inexpensive cigar.

[Jimmy2]

Watch out for that bad information:lookaround: .

[kluck]

Maybe I should have said incorrect information.

[Jimmy2]

Hang around Kluck you can learn some stuff around here dont answer so fast until you read all of the posts.

I did not give bad information or incorrect information if you read my post's.

My points were very well made and correct the only thing people have to say here is there to cheap to be fake.

In which i stated in one of my posts here to but you never know.

Living in NYC i see some crazy stuff here at the Lounge people coming in with all kinds of garbage but always 100% fake.

These people will take the bait everytime with these counterfeiters which they will make every brand and push it for the masses as long as they keep buying (They make millions a year!).

I have seen fake monte 4 years back they are cheap to.

All i am saying is you should have an open mind and don't go by well they dont cost that much so their fake.

Rob know his stuff and i will go by what he said but my points were very well made.

[Claudius]

» I did not give bad information or incorrect information if you read my

» post's.

Hi Jimmy

As far as I am concerned, everything you said is coorect, except whenb you said "your box is showing me that they are not real.". I would say we cannot know that for sure. You actually did say that also. A 3 months difference in serial number labels isnt proof the box is fake. The one lined stamp is what makes me wonder. But I'm not saying they're fake simply because I havent seen this sort of stamp yet. Maybe Rob could confirm if the stamps are like this on some (or all) of the Mille Fleurs?

Another thing is that the cigar looks better than a real habano! ;-)

[El Presidente]

Just let me clarify a few points:

In front of me is a box of Partagas de Partagas No 1

Code all on one line: CUEOCT03

Habanos s.a

Hecho en CUba

Totalmente al Mano

The above has no inprint in the wood. It does not appear in any way to be "ironed in". Smithy and I have just spent 10 minutes determining if it had been "ironed in" in any way.....looks like a stamp to us (and that was after we used a magnifying glass). Using the finger over the top test...no indentation.

I will post a photo tomorrow for you. But I just wanted to point out that there are few 100% fast and furious rules in the determination of fakes.

Just out of interest, this box of Partagas was one of 40 received in a PCC shipment earlier this month. Every other box had a two line date code as we normally see. Go figure :-)

[Jimmy2]

You learn something new everyday..

[jqmunro]

» The above has no inprint in the wood. It does not appear in any way to be

» "ironed in". Smithy and I have just spent 10 minutes determining if it had

» been "ironed in" in any way.....looks like a stamp to us (and that was

» after we used a magnifying glass). Using the finger over the top test...no

» indentation.

Strange, very strange....

[Claudius]

Thanks Rob! Very interesting indeed.

[jqmunro]

Rob,

Any of the others of this same vitola branded... especially all the others with the two line box codes?

[DrAlejandro]

this is a very interesting thread... just goes to show that anything that is mass produced and for the most part by hand will have some small variations and mistakes. makes everything all that more difficult as far as determining fakes is concerned... all in all its just so much easier to buy from a source you trust :-D