Merovius Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 Good evening gents, we were discussing the Boli Finos on another cigar site which sees considerably less traffic than this one and the subject of a blend change around 2008 came up. I could not find anything official on the subject but do recall reading about seed/leaf varietal additions and changes circa '98 and 2007. Again I spent some time searching around various online publications, blogs, books I have at home etc. and couldnt find where I read that. Another gracious botl purported that there was only one seed/leaf change and that occurred in 1995. That is contrary to my own recollection. Id like to pool the collective wisdom of the FoH community to add some clarity to the discussion. What blend changes, and/or seed changes are you aware of that Habanos SA has made over the last 30 years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickHendeson Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 I would be interested in, a least, a link to an authoritative source on this topic as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigben Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 I am interested in this also. I only know of the change in the 90's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post NSXCIGAR Posted July 26, 2016 Popular Post Share Posted July 26, 2016 Cuban cigars were almost exclusively made from Corojo (wrapper) & Criollo (binder & filler) throughout most of the 20th century. Blue mold had been non-existent until 1957. Two decades later there was a sudden and severe blue mold and black shank outbreak on the tobacco crop in 1978 and 1979 followed by Hurricane Jeanne in 1980 culminating in near total crop losses around that time. In the early 90s or possibly earlier, problems with blue mold and black shank appeared again but this time remained persistent. I believe the blend changes in 1995 were an attempt to ration what scarce Criollo ligero they still had available. Many of Cuba's strongest cigars suddenly became tame (PSD4, Lusitania, some Bolivar). Cubatabaco was on the clock to find and develop strains that could replace Corojo & Criollo as they were quickly becoming impossible to cultivate with any reliability. In the mid-late 90s, the Criollo 98 and 99 were developed, cultivated and refined, and Habana 2000 was appropriately introduced around the year 2000. Cuba also likely altered their leaf curing methods around 2000, possibly employing higher heat during the process. This may also contribute to the earlier smokeability of cigars made post-2000, so it's unknown how much of that characteristic is due exclusively to the strain itself and how much is due to the different curing process. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post El Presidente Posted July 26, 2016 Popular Post Share Posted July 26, 2016 I am no expert by any means. Following on from NSX's post above, Habanos 2000 was strained to produce Capero No. 1 and Criollo 2006 and then Corojo 2012 (which was used successfully on Robainas plantation this past season). My understanding is that there are 4 strains being used currently. Lifecyscle of a strain is 5-7 years with new strains being introduced progressively. Each strain harks back to Corojo. They each have their strengths and weaknesses. Punch Joe wrote this a little while ago in regard to Robaina's use of plantation tobacco in their onsite cigars. A minimal percent of the harvest is allowed for the growers to keep for themselves so they can roll their own cigars. These farm cigars with leaves which have been processed, sorted and stored at the farm for some years is the most accurate sign for judging the crop and the region. They use binders, fillers and wrappers grown in the farm to produce a Puro. The Robaina family has been doing this for a while. There, you can witness the thinnest, oily and no veins wrapper that could trigger salivation. They have same facilities for leaf processing at a lesser scale but with equal purpose, we are not talking of thousands and thousands cigars. I tried cigars which were made using leaves from the 2004 harvest. Later on, they offered me to try the 2008´s. What I found is that the difference may lie in the aging, even though the tobacco strains planted in those years were different but it carries the spirit and the core of the tobaccos grown there. The 2004 was earthier and mellow compared to the 2008 ones. Things turned out to be more interesting when they told me they started piling up some good material to roll a few quantities every year so multiple combinations are possible. That´s nothing new to the cigar industry. Prior to 1959, factory owners would only buy tobacco from the same plantations year after year. If the Cuban cigar industry is really concerned about the consistency and the unparalleled inner quality of our product, they should take a closer look at the leaf selection and the aging process the way the growers do with their own to produce some good farm cigars. What I like about this article is that we have a true "plantation puro" to go by. Still, one has to consider the differences in growing season and other variables such as tobacco strain used, experimentation in fermentation etc. So in summary: Multiple strains have been used and continue to be in use. The ligero tobacco from a 2008 BBF would be (roughly) from a 2003/4 crop. The wrapper from 2005/6. Secco from 2004/5. More than likely from different strains and different growing conditions. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NSXCIGAR Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 2 minutes ago, El Presidente said: ...Habanos 2000 was strained to produce Capero No. 1 and Criollo 2006 and then Corojo 2012 (which was used successfully on Robainas plantation this past season). My understanding is that there are 4 strains being used currently. Lifecyscle of a strain is 5-7 years with new strains being introduced progressively. Not aware of this at all, great info. Very happy that the experimentation with strains apparently continues. I think it's essential for continued improvements, which I think have certainly had a linear upward trend overall since 2002 despite some dips every 3-5 years. The lifecycle span of 5-7 years you mentioned seems to fit quite well with the peaks in quality since 2002. 03-04, 07-08, 13-15. Let's hope for further refinements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oliverdst Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 A picture I took in a farm last november. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuzz Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 3 hours ago, oliverdst said: A picture I took in a farm last november. You really shouldn't let the bugs poop in your hand... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oliverdst Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 7 hours ago, Fuzz said: You really shouldn't let the bugs poop in your hand... Baby cigars! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cep Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 Haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merovius Posted July 26, 2016 Author Share Posted July 26, 2016 Thanks for taking the time to reply. I know myself and others find this information very helpful. So we have: Up until ~1992 El Corojo1995 (blend changes to ration remaining El Corojo ligero)~1996-1998 Criollo 98 & 99 developed and used with remaining El Corojo2000 Habana 2000 (curing changes implemented)??? Capero No. 1 (strained from Habana 2000)2006 Criollo 20062012 Corojo 2012 2015 - In Pinar, varieties of Criollo, Criollo 98 and Corojo 2006, and Habana 92 planted. article Habana 2000, Habana 92, Criollo 99, Criollo 2006, Corojo 2006 and Corojo 2012 are current strains being blended into Cuban cigars as of 2016. Official statements from Tabacuba would obv be more helpful than trying to piece together the mystery from farm visits, blogs etc. What of the Cuban Black/Shade Grown Negro? The Partagas EL 2014 Seleccion Privada certainly tasted like Corojo leaf imo and the timing would also line up with Corojo grown in 2012 (EL 2 yr aging). I know it s a lot of questions, but its definitely a healthy and worthwhile discussion so far. So finally, would anyone care to comment on Boli Finos post ~2008? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fugu Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 There was an excellent article in CA about one year ago. Unfortunately, it seems not to be online anymore (perhaps someone can dig this up, it had been posted here before). It was an interview with Eumelio Espino, the man in charge and the main responsible for the development of the new strains in response to the tobacco disease issues. There is also info to be found in the publications of Adriano Rius, I think. I haven't the time at the moment to check, but from mind, according to Espino, the 1994 harvest had been the last utilizing the old strains. Which had then been replaced almost completely by the new hybrids in the following season. Thus, from my understanding (acc. to the general aging regime), in terms of the finished product, Corojo for wrappers would have been replaced by 1995/96 with Habana 2000, Criollo for binder and filler around 96/97, 1998 latest, with Habana 92 (perhaps with the exception of Cohiba). As Rob sais, there is ongoing research and development in tobacco strains. Not sure whether that indeed follows a fixed 5-7 year cycle, but there certainly was no halt after Habana 2000 and Habana 92 (they went back to naming them Criollo and Corojo..., counting up to 2010 and 2012 etc.). I must say I don't buy too much into the idea of that purportedly strong influence of the first Corojo replacement. With all the discussion on the original Corojo, what seems to be always forgotten is that the tobacco strain originally used for filler and binder had changed too, when Habana 92 had replaced the original Criollo. Ok, that woud lead us again to the old debate of the effect of the wrapper leaf on cigar taste.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alloy Posted July 27, 2016 Share Posted July 27, 2016 Great read tommygun68! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fugu Posted July 27, 2016 Share Posted July 27, 2016 8 hours ago, tommygun68 said: I believe you refer to this one i posted Fugu http://www.cigaraficionado.com/webfeatures/show/id/a-passion-for-seeds-18248 That's the one! Thanks Tommy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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