Question about Wineador Temperature Settings?

[Blazer]

Hi All,

So I've out grown my wooden humidors and decided to combine everything in a wineador. I live in the south and while I can keep my basement at 65* during the winter in the summer that area can rise to 77*. Rather than paying to cool the whole basement ($$$) I thought the wineador would be a great solution.

I ordered a NewAir 281E, plugged it in, set the temp to 65* and let it sit a couple days. Even though I set the temp on the unit at 65* the unit is reading 59*, which I confirmed by placing a thermometer in the cooler. The ambient temp in the room is a steady 65* day and night. I did a search on this topic, but it appears most questions are around variable temp and humidity within the unit and not the setting itself.

So my question is why won't the cooler hold to the ambient temp? Is this a function of thermoelectric units or is there something wrong with the cooler? I know that these units can only work properly within certain ambient temp parameters, but 65* appears to well within that range. While I know I can simply unplug the unit during the winter I need to be sure everything is functioning correctly before we get to the summer months. I bought the unit from Wayfair and their customer service was not much help. Any suggestions or expertise would be greatly appreciated.

[NapaNolan]

Some guesses...

The unit being on will generate heat and possibly bring itself above ambient temp. When it wants to cool itself down, it has to use air that is cooled below ambient temp, likely in the 50s. When it turns on and blows cool air, the temperature can only go down.

I'd say unplug it if the ambient temp is where you want it, the unit will last a lot longer as well.

[PigFish]

This is likely a combination of poor controls and overshoot. Overshoot is when a real instrument must control something in real life, verses the drawing board.

Any system like this is designed around an ambient temperature (from an engineering perspective). If not, it won't work for most people. So in the machines life, there is what temperature you want it to be, what the temp is outside, how long the delta will take to over come and what eventually happens inside. For the most part, I have described hysteresis. Every system that is driven by an event, has a time to react and its ability to react. That is its hysterisis.

If your system is designed around a (lets say) 74˚F ambient then what will it likely do in a 65F ambient? It will overshoot it! The capacity of the cooling system, and the systems activation logic and differential logic numbers support a set point differential and heat absorption based on a standard, and your basement is too cool for it. The controller is not a PID, or learning controller, nor is the logic programmable, so you live with it.

A good controller will cost you more than the cooler! So be happy with it, or break out your checkbook and soldering iron!

Hope that helps! -Piggy

[stogieluver]

Would moving it out of the basement in the wintertime solve the problem?

[Blazer]

Would moving it out of the basement in the wintertime solve the problem?

I'm not sure, but that sort of defeats the purpose of having a temperature controlled box versus a wooden box. Additionally, we only raise the temp in the main level to 67* in the winter. I guess I don't understand how I constantly read about wineadors maintaining a "rock solid 65/65" regardless of the time of year or area of the home its stored in. If Piggy is correct in his hypothesis, does everyone keep their house at a constant 74* to so their wineador always drops the temp to a perfect 65*??

[PigFish]

I'm not sure, but that sort of defeats the purpose of having a temperature controlled box versus a wooden box. Additionally, we only raise the temp in the main level to 67* in the winter. I guess I don't understand how I constantly read about wineadors maintaining a "rock solid 65/65" regardless of the time of year or area of the home its stored in. If Piggy is correct in his hypothesis, does everyone keep their house at a constant 74* to so their wineador always drops the temp to a perfect 65*??

My hypothesis if not correct, is going to be pretty damn close. I have built enough controlled humidors to know.

Where I am likely wrong is in guessing a break over number. I have no idea what the number is... and I just tossed the 74 out there.

Listening to folks who never data logged a system claim 65/65 perfection is a problem on cigar boards. Drop a data logger in one of those by the door, or by the cooler and it will show them boasting, or unknowing in most 48 hour cycles. There is no shortcut to making one of these systems work (to my standard) but working to the standard of another is a matter of their defining it!!! If you can pull out a cigar and enjoy it, that defines working.

I can prove the break over point hypothesis with one of my coolers dehydrating in low temperature (if I can find the data logs). My systems dehydrate as well as hydrate and if the temp drops low enough, and the heater cannot supply enough heat, the heater runs full time and the temperature drops in the humidor until the inside/outside delta is enough to support energy loss. In this case, it is the opposite of what you are talking about but the principle is the same. Eventually you move outside the realm of where the machine was designed to operate, and the over shoot, the programmed cooling, heating or whatever, will cause the system to get out of a controlled equilibrium.

Again, I have done this enough to know, and there are few problems I have not seen in controlled humidors. What I cannot nor will not do is try to explain what others claim beyond what I have posted above. I don't think that I have a customer that I have not explained that I refuse to believe their anecdotal evidence over my own. It is not that people are lying, but it is often that they either don't observe the full spectrum of events or recognize them. It is often their testing methods or the instruments that they use... but that is neither here nor there to me, nor does it help in solving problems.

Cheers! And good luck on your project. -the Pig

[jwr0201]

In my experience with thermoelectric (Peltier) cooling systems, this is the norm. My wineador will always drop a few degrees below the ambient temperature of the room it is located in. Here in Florida, we don't use the heat much at all and it often is around 65 degrees or even lower. At those times, the wineador will run as low as 55 degrees (indicated). I keep two digital hygros in the unit and find that the internal temp in the cooler full of cigars is actually closer to 58-60 degrees. Humidification is rock solid and the cigars smoke perfectly. I would not worry about it at all. It's the humidity that is important.

[joejack11]

How about wire in a johnsons control a419 temp controller . You'll be able to control temp a lot more accurate . I use that in all of my wineadors.

Comp and te