Active Humidification

[Professor Twain]

That's not Hutch you quoted - that was me.

Again, as I mentioned before, with "all things being equal", higher humidity air will rise. It's science. Wiki it, Google it, whatever - it's been discussed on the forum here as well plenty of times over the years.

But also, we're talking a miniscule difference here, for the overall elevation difference within a humidor cabinet / coolerdor.

Check the surface temperatures inside, top and bottom. Something is causing a condensate / "dew zone" / fog effect to make the humidity pool at the bottom layer of air.

Sorry I got the source wrong, I tried to reply on my phone with Tapatalk.

I have done my best to search/Google this and have not been able to find anything. If you have something that explains your view, I'd love to see it. That said, my Haier fridge consistently has MUCH higher humidity on the bottom than on the top. I don't know why but for those considering using such a system, they need to be prepared for this.

[CanuckSARTech]

Sorry I got the source wrong, I tried to reply on my phone with Tapatalk.

I have done my best to search/Google this and have not been able to find anything. If you have something that explains your view, I'd love to see it. That said, my Haier fridge consistently has MUCH higher humidity on the bottom than on the top. I don't know why but for those considering using such a system, they need to be prepared for this.

Look at all of Piggy's recent posts too - he has the humidor tracking specifics to show this.

Google / Wikipedia search on humidity. It's higher at the top than bottom, all things being equal. It's science. Sorry, but I just don't have time or energy to look up a scientific report - many of us have discussed it on here, and your stating that you still don't believe it because of your fridge issue being inverse is kinda like someone who's colour blind arguing with a crowd saying that the sky is blue. It...just is.

Sorry, don't mean to sound snarky or harsh here though. I probably didn't communicate that proceeding paragraph as good as I could.

Again - with your fridge example, something else must be causing the pooling of humidity. Use a laser thermometer or something to see if the interior surface temperature is colder.

As I stated before, I had it in my coolerdors, but it was because of a heatsink effect of the coolers sitting on cement (not the air's humidity naturally being that way), and so I negated it by adding the cedar into the base of the cooler's interior.

[Profmd]

My cabinet is sitting on a wooden floor about 1" off the ground.

I've noticed it reads higher when sitting on concrete, but even now it's still higher at the bottom.

Could be fan placement, or slightly cooler at the bottom, but mine has always been higher at the bottom.

I have read all the articles about higher humidity at the top, but I have NEVER seen it.

Not saying it's not true, just me saying what I have always seen.

Don't care much either. Have my Cubans near the top, and the NC near the bottom. Works great for me.

[planetary]

I have always seen higher humidity at the bottom in my wineadors, as well.

Lots of variables here, so I really can't explain why this is. If I was forced to speculate, I'd guess that we're also seeing temperature gradients, and the "hot air rises" effect might be overhwhelming the "humid air is less dense" effect.

[TonyAccardo]

I have always seen higher humidity at the bottom in my wineadors, as well.

Lots of variables here, so I really can't explain why this is. If I was forced to speculate, I'd guess that we're also seeing temperature gradients, and the "hot air rises" effect might be overhwhelming the "humid air is less dense" effect.

Your speculation is right on the money. Because hot air rises AND is less dense less humidity will be "at play" in the upper, warmer air. And because cold air falls and is denser you have more humidity "in play". That's the best way I can explain it but Colt also said something previously about his basement floor being cold and this acts as a giant heat sink. The same thing happens in my 150qt cooler which is in a cool basement here in Denver,Colorado.

[PigFish]

Gents... air is not water (vapor). Water vapor does not bond to air. It is a free agent and a part of air. (not dry air)

I am not going to get into a pissing match here because it is pretty simple. It is a matter of density. Lets call air O(2)+N(2). What weighs less H(2)O or O(2) of N(2)?

How about this:

The molecular mass of a substance is the mass of one molecule of the substance. Molecular mass is expressed with the unit u (equal to 1/12 the mass of one atom of carbon-12) and the molecular mass can be calculated by summarizing the atomic masses of all the atoms in the molecule.

Components in Dry Air

The two most dominant components in dry air are Oxygen and Nitrogen. Oxygen has an atomic unit mass of 16 and Nitrogen has an atomic units mass of 14. Since both of these elements are diatomic in air - O₂ and N₂, the molecular mass of Oxygen is 32 and the molecular mass of Nitrogen is 28.

Air is a mixture of gases and the total mass can be estimated by adding the weight of all major components as shown below:

Components in Dry Air Volume Ratio compared to Dry Air Molecular Mass - M
(kg/kmol) Molecular Mass in Air Oxygen 0.2095 32.00 6.704 Nitrogen 0.7809 28.02 21.88 Carbon Dioxide 0.0003 44.01 0.013 Hydrogen 0.0000005 2.02 0 Argon 0.00933 39.94 0.373 Neon 0.000018 20.18 0 Helium 0.000005 4.00 0 Krypton 0.000001 83.8 0 Xenon 0.09 10^-6 131.29 0 Total Molecular Mass of Air 28.97

Air Density

The density of dry air can be calculated with the Ideal Gas Law

ρ = p / (R T)

(1)

where

p = pressure (kPa)

R = 286.9 = individual gas constant (J/kg

o

K)

T

= absolute temperature (

o

K)

The density of dry air at atmospheric pressure 101.325 kPa (101325 Pa) and 0^oC can be calculated as

ρ = (101325 Pa) /

((286.9 J/kg

o

K)

(273

o

K))

=

1.294

kg/m

3

Water Vapor

Water vapor is almost always present in air. The content may vary and the maximum amount possible of water vapor in dry air depends on the temperature of the air.

Water vapor - H₂O - is composed of one Oxygen atom and two Hydrogen atoms. Hydrogen is the lightest element at 1 atomic unit while Oxygen is 16 atomic units. Thus the water vapor atom has an atomic mass of 18 atomic units. With 18 atomic units water vapor is lighter than diatomic Oxygen with 32 units and diatomic Nitrogen with 28 units.

• Note! Water vapor in air will replace the other gases and reduce the total density of the mixture. Dry air is more dense than humid air!

The vapor in air may saturate to droplets when temperature is decreased or pressure is increased.

• moist air - temperature and saturation pressure

Humid air containing water molecules as liquid - droplets - may be more dense than dry air or humid air containing water only as vapor.

We have a winner! It is science!

The question is now, what is wrong with your humidor? That is the questions that you should be asking. If science does not work in your humidor, the problem is not the science, it is your humidor!!!

AS ALWAYS... if you are happy with your humidor and your cigars, there is nothing wrong with your humidor, or what you are observing as your opinion is all that matters...

NUT is right... I don't care what anyone THINKS they see going on in their humidor! If you see something other than the science, there is something wrong with what you are seeing or how you are seeing it. The science is right!

I would explain what is likely wrong with your humidors, but do you really care? I mean if some of you have dealt with it and have been happy for 10 years, what is the point?

-Piggy