EuroTrash Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 I just purchased a Madelaine digital hygro (Xikar owned) and did a salt calibration on it. Problem is each time I repeat the test I get a different result. After calibration the first test gave me 64% and the following one is now at 78% after a couple hours. Why is all over the place? How can I know for sure that it is calibrated? I have tried it with varying amounts of salt, different containers etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shlomo Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Plastic soda bottle cap, a little pile of table salt, just enough water to wet it, but not turn it into a slurry. Zip tight in Ziplock in temperature controlled environment. Leave alone for a few hours. If you did exactly these steps and still found major fluctuations, I would recommend trying one more time and then contacting Madelaine for exchange instructions due to a faulty device. I have a Madelaine humidor and humidifier and both have always worked wonderfully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hounser Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 I would suggest just switching to a Boveda calibration kit, they are generally pretty cheap and I personally have never had any luck with the salt test. Sometimes too much or too little water can have an effect, the size of the ziploc bag, is it airtight or too permeable. Too many variables. Since I've used the Boveda kits I feel confident my hygros are accurate. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Othello Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 I agree with using the Boveda kit. It's around $6.00 and can be reused for three months. I get them from Amazon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PigFish Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Every means that I know of to attempt to achieve a calibration via equilibrium moisture content requires a fixed temperature. If your temperature varies, so do the results. A study of salts and using them for equilibrium moisture content stability and calibration requires a fixed temperature, a PURE salt, enough slurry to remain wet and enough salt to remain dry! Sodium chloride is typically iodized and rarely a pure salt. NaCl per reference data will provide an equilibrium moisture environment of 76rH at 20dC. Do you store your cigars at 76rH and 20C? If not, there is not much of a point in calibrating to it!! Thin film hygrometer sensors have neither a linear response curve nor one that is parallel to reality. Typically sensor accuracy is bowl shaped and they have lesser accuracy as they approach the top and the bottom rH limits, namely 20rH and less and 80rH and higher. Your sensor my be off 6% (for example) at 80rH and right on the money at 54rH, just as an example! Adjusting a hygrometer at 76rH, in order to read it at 65rH, may well have the probability of causing you greater errors than if left alone! If you wish to test with salt, buy a salt calibration kit. Sodium Nitrate for example will net a 65rH reading at the same 20dC. Sodium nitrate therefore will be a better test. The real question is how are you going to calibrate your thermometer? Your electronic hygrometer relies on your electronic thermometer in order to give you a reading. If your thermometer is off by 2 percent, well your rH readings are not worth squat! Cheers, Piggy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stogieninja Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Piggy, you're super informative but not very encouraging! What do you do for yours? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CUBANO Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Do the test for 12 hrs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PigFish Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Piggy, you're super informative but not very encouraging! What do you do for yours? I am not immune to this stuff either mate… believe me! First I have determined that this is another 'big d**k' contest and I try like hell not to get wrapped up in it. I am somewhat different than most however, in that I run a small humidor controls business. I have several NIST certified sensors (for whatever that is worth!!!) Like most I have learned to determine cigar condition via examination and smoking. Perfect for me, is likely dry to most people but with enough experience and with the help of some precision controls I have a good idea what condition my cigars are in and if I have a controls or sensor problem. There is really no economical answer! Meaning, if you wish to prove something you need a highly accurate instrument, or a chilled mirror hygrometer! If you are going to salt test, buy a chemically pure salt for testing! Follow the instructions and provide it an accurate thermometer… That is the best I can come up with. Despite thousands of dollars in equipment, I am really, not substantially better off than you in the trust department. Yes, my instruments are likely really better than most peoples'. BUT, like you… I need to trust another company to tell me that my stuff works. It all boils down to what is important to you. I trust may tastes first and my instruments second and my instruments are pretty damn good! What I cannot fathom is that people will spend tens of thousands on cigars and then they will drop a $25.00 piece of junk in with them to tell them if they are stored properly!!! It is just an observation that makes me chuckle… My advice is this. If you have a collection worth protecting and you believe that the value of your collection is in any way affected by your storage conditions; buy an instrument that is at least certifiable. If you get a certified instrument, one that is certified at the temperature and relative humidity at which you wish to store, you will likely find out that their (the certification company) instrument is only certified to between 1 and 2 percent anyway… -LOL The lesson is this. Don't lose your head over it. Buy a good instrument, at least one that you can trust and watch your collection and learn to judge it by feel and smoking condition. Don't rely on the same instrument for more than a few years without replacing the sensor. Sensor creep is real, and while it is typically less than 1 percent in good instruments, over the years the sensor will wear out. When I tested some of my old CMT controllers, ones that I have owned for a number of years, I found that they were way, way off. The old controller that is in my Aristocrat (yes I own one too!), it is off 6rH!!! I know because I have data logged it. Someday I am going to offer kits to replace all these old controllers, but that is a different story altogether… Trust in God, but tie up your horse!!! Better yet, "Trust in Gob but use a logic controller!!!" -LOL Cheers mate! -Ray 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EuroTrash Posted January 30, 2014 Author Share Posted January 30, 2014 Wow loads of info there. I'm having totally different results each time and it is a one button deal so can only calibrate to 75%. May see if there is a test kit to order online I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superconductor71 Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Cant add anything to the extent of Piggy, but I can add my personal experience that the salt test IS filled with too many variables to be reliable (as Piggy said). I decided to test two brand new hygrometers and did the salt test......after 24 hours one hygrometer read 63 rh and the other 64 rh. It drove me nuts....I couldn't believe that both were off by 10 pts. I ended up taking them to two different BM's, both running Stulz humidification units and the shops but the hygrometers in their humidors for 24 hours each. Yes, I do know that I cannot gurantee that THEY were calibrated perfectly, but I need to trust something somewhere and that seemed the best way. One shop was set at 67 and the other at 70. Both of my hygrometers were reading either exactly at both places, or one pt off. It ended up that my hygrometers, after all of that, were in fact properly calibrated. Lol. Take that for what it's worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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