Wallabies squad for Lions tour

[ARRV]

No Quade Cooper?

What is the feeling out there about the squad?

Me? - Forwards: Dave Dennis was very lucky to be in squad but doubt he will get much game time if any. Otherwise pretty predictable

Backs - Not sure if JOC is the answer - Barnes has been playing reasonably well in the 10 mins he gets a game for the Tahs - when the opposition is tired and there are more gaps. However he couldn't help aimless kicking - old habits I guess.

I would have picked Cooper. Sure he has deficiencies but he creates more than he lets through - and he hasnt been helped in the past by weak packs. Get the pack going forward and he can do more. If the pack is under pressure then maybe Barnes with his kicking game is more suited - but surely you have to play a team on the assumption that the forwards will stand up

Anwyay - what do you think?

[El Presidente]

Anwyay - what do you think?

• If Barnes put all his tests together he may have completed two full games.
  
• Dennis is from NSW so he may even be Captain. Obviously a selector in the making if not ARU CEO.
  
• Cooper has three big liabilities:
  
  • His mouth. Referring to the national coach as "toxic" is not a smart career move.
    
  • His past outside backs. Imagine looking outside and only seeing Pat Macabe. This should improve with this backline.
    
  • Just like Roberto Duran...he is remembered for folding in the heat of battle. "No Mas". You can blame the coach, a beaten forward pack, a dearth of outside speed. However watch the vids...he folded.
    

Mind you I would still pick cooper in a flash. if he fails to produce good football then that is the end of him. However he is still out best No 10 by a long shot.

[Munts]

El Pres and i discussed this on Saturday. It seems fairly clear that Cooper is not in the picture for Deans preferred style of play. That style is to bash it up the middle with a lot of one off running. I honestly dont think it was a personal grudge to leave Cooper out of the squad. The idea that Deans would leave out a player he actually truely thinks would help him win the series, and therefore save his own neck, because of a grudge is a bit silly.

However, I believe the tactic of one off up the middle just doesnt work. We have the best loose forwards in the world. I would play the back three with loose forwards. Play the game with a quick turnover and play the ball and make the opposition backpeddal. This would in turn make the half gaps that Cooper and Genia plays best with. My 2c anyway.

[mazolaman]

El Pres and i discussed this on Saturday. It seems fairly clear that Cooper is not in the picture for Deans preferred style of play. That style is to bash it up the middle with a lot of one off running. I honestly dont think it was a personal grudge to leave Cooper out of the squad. The idea that Deans would leave out a player he actually truely thinks would help him win the series, and therefore save his own neck, because of a grudge is a bit silly.

However, I believe the tactic of one off up the middle just doesnt work. We have the best loose forwards in the world. I would play the back three with loose forwards. Play the game with a quick turnover and play the ball and make the opposition backpeddal. This would in turn make the half gaps that Cooper and Genia plays best with. My 2c anyway.

That would be the tactic I think would work best, as I doubt you pack will bully the Lions in the scrum.

Over here, it is thought that Genia is your key, but that's just the press chit chat. I am also surprised that Cooper isn't there.

As for the Lions, big news, Welsh coach favours Welsh players in disputable position! There are a lot of good players in the Lions though, but I wonder if some who play well in the Millenium Stadium will play well far from home!

Should be a good series though.

[Ken Gargett]

As far as I am concerned, the sooner Deans goes back to anywhere else the better. So clearly incapable of doing the job that it is terrifying.

You've heard of the Peter Principle? We now have the Robbie Rule – where someone is put into a position for which he is so absolutely utterly incapable of performing.

Word is (without naming sources, who to be fair, have not always been completely accurate) that some of those very close to him professionally are starting to realise just how limited he is – and please spare me the crap about how good a coach he is/was, from his time at the Crusaders. Daffy Duck could have done equally as well. McCaw, Carter, Thorn, Merhtens, Read, Blackadder, Marshall, Jack, Somerville and on and on. This was a side with so many All Blacks that they had to have a heap on the bench as not room for them all on the field. In a provincial comp. Yet we swallowed the crap about him being a genius.

And remember that he did not mould the Crusaders – they had won several titles in the previous years before he stepped in.

Leave aside Cooper for a moment. He has had Australia now for about 6 years and we have a dire record. Beaten by Western Samoa (as the old joke goes – thank god we were not playing all of Samoa), Scotland twice, Ireland and so on. DIRE!!

Just so I understand – a month ago he picked the first squad of 30 (no Cooper). A month later, he picks another squad of 25 (okay, a legitimate argument for refining the squad – but NO, and still no Cooper). In two weeks, he is picking a third squad by adding a further 8 players. What a joke. This is a bloke utterly bereft of any ideas.

So for a squad of 25, we have only one half back. Good as he is (tho a shocker on the weekend), Genia is coming back from a long term knee injury – it is like the Skins releasing all the rest of their QB's and keeping only RG3.

Brumbies and Reds the top two Aussie sides all year, by a street. Yet, except for the last minute injury to Polenta-Now, NSW would have had the same number of representatives as both teams combined. Deans is simply a really stupid man.

Apparently, Gill only made it last minute because Smith was injured. Has this moron seen a game this year? Gill has been as good a player as anyone in the game. Still, last year, he sent him off to play under age crap – I think 7 games in a about ten days – when a leprous squirrel could see he was a perfect fit for the Wallabies squad. Not this tosser (and yes, if I said what I really thought, the whole thing would go into Rob's delete bin). I sent a note to a few mates expressing a few thoughts. Some follow...

Dave Dennis? Seriously? In a Wallaby jersey. They have been devalued for all time. To think that, thanks to Deans, future generations will look down a list of Wallaby forwards and see his name sitting with those of players like Eales and Loane. One of the saddest days imaginable.

And if Kyle Godwin hasn't played Rob Horne off the park, I’ll swim to Sydney. Mind you, Horne (like a heap of those picked) has been off the scene battling injury – that seems to be a positive for Deans. And he is from NSW.

As for Cooper, every single report from every single “expert”, former player, pundit, whatever , has insisted that pretty much the only/best/most likely way to beat the Lions was with Cooper (although I simply refuse to read the nonsense that spurts forth from Mark Ella so no idea what he has said, other than I am certain he would have first spent endless time telling everyone, for the 4,529^th time, how good he and his brothers were and how they invented rugby, saved rugby, were rugby etc etc – I did like one critic saying that not including Cooper was the worst decision since 1982 when Dwyer picked Ella ahead of Paul McLean).

Agree with Rob re certain things. Cooper is as dumb as soup off the field but a genius on it. He didn't actually call Deans 'toxic', just the atmosphere Deans had created around the team – but just as dumb. Thankfully, we are spared McCabe (my thoughts on him – a stumbling tree stump with the speed of Lloyd Walker, the step of Nathan Grey and the footballing nous of a fish, so needless to say, an absolute favourite of Deans).

Agree with Rob that Cooper played poorly in NZ and there are reasons, but in the end it is up to the individual. That said, my view is that this was a kid who had been idolised all his life, returning to the land of his birth for a sporting tournament, and he ran into the most disgraceful, disgusting bile thrown at him by a great many Kiwis – a view shared by plenty of Kiwis who were extremely embarrassed. He had no idea it was coming and no idea how to handle it. Some players just love that – witness Wally Lewis playing in Sydney – but others do not. He did not. BUT, fortunately we had the person best placed on the planet to assist him. Deans – another Kiwi representing Australia and returning to his original country. Instead, Deans abandoned him and left him to handle it himself. Completely failed the kid and completely failed as any sort of decent coach or mentor.

If that wasn't a clue, actually it was about the 75^th clue, that this bloke was not up to the job, what is? But in the end, up to Cooper.

In Cooper's defence, he has kept his mouth firmly shut all year, worked hard, overcome a knee injury and done all his coach has asked. Been playing very well – his pass to Saia F a week ago is the best pass I have ever seen bar none – rugby or league. Exquisite. Defence has been far better.

All this crap about he must defend in the front line? Check out the vids of the 2003 World Cup. Clive was far too clever to let his prize boot spend much time defending there (Jonny was a good defender but that didn't matter). Yet Deans is too stupid and myopic to understand the concept.

Curiously, Deans says the toxic comments are completely forgotten (altho if forgotten, odd that he mentions them every interview). Yet Cooper was his first choice fly half up till then (and injury). Deans now says Cooper's defence and attack are both not up to standard – making him a minority of one with that view. And yet, he picked him 38 times (for once, not an exxageration) before the comments and not once since them. A complete coincidence that the change of heart came when Cooper was brave/dumb enough to say what a great many were thinking.

Obviously the fact that captain and half, Will Genia, has publicly said he wants to play with Cooper and that the combination he has with Cooper has been built up over time and he does not have that combination with anyone else, fell on deaf ears (or more specifically on dumb ears).

Mind you, if we had a better replacement, then who could argue.

The 3 options (given yet another Wallaby moron is still on the piss – come on down, Kurtley) are O'Connor – played about ten minutes as a fly half this year and agreed by all to be far better suited out wide; L'fiano – played in-centre almost all year and never played international footy; Barnes – played 12 minutes this year, and I think most of that was at in-centre. My view of Barnes is no secret – not even Barnes would pick Barnes ahead of Cooper. Look how Qld blossomed as soon as he limped south. Best thing that ever happened to us. But as he has played about 16 minutes this year, of course he deserves a spot! And who knows – he might actually finish his first game since the under 8’s and not find yet a new injury. What a joke! so our fly half, one of the most important positions on the field, if not the most important, will be filled by someone who has hardly played there all year - be like an NFL side moving a running back into QB or nathan lyon taking the keeping gloves for the Aussie cricket team.

The tragedy of this is that the Lions come once every 12 years. And we are flushing our best chance to beat them away with this moron.

Sadly, I don't think that there'll be enough Qlders on the field come the first Test, to get over the massive handicap of Deans.

The only silver lining is that this must surely be the final nail in Deans' coffin.

[Ken Gargett]

for Deans preferred style of play. That style is to bash it up the middle with a lot of one off running.

quite honestly, i think that sending small centres straight ahead into larger defenders, and hoping we get the ball back so we can do it again, is only 'Deans' style of play' because he is so devoid of any other ideas.

[frenchkiwi]

Quade Cooper played like crap the whole first half of the season (was even leading player on the giving away turnovers statistic).

Deans leaves him out of the training squad - message sent.

QC starts playing much better (mightily aided by the return from injury of the great Genia to hold his hand). He even starts tackling for the first time in his career (although as we saw in the last game it certainly still ain't his forte).

QC will be in the squad, might even start at 10, for lack of other options. And this despite the tried tested formula that he wilts when under pressure at the highest level and is prone to unforced errors. This will be his big 2nd chance to show that he has matured enough to know when to kick and when to run, and to know the difference between shits and giggles super 15 and test rugby. Maybe he has even found out what playing for a team is about and bowing to team tactics.

O'Connor has shown he can animate a running attack but is still not really a first five and runs sideways a lot. Lealiafano was the candidate to take his jersey last year until he got injured and was shuffled to 12 for the brumbies. Barnes is not really a first five either just a semi-adequate cover and play-it-safe option taker. Beale has gone walkabout. Strangely, B "who?" Foley is probably the form specialist 1st5 but only as of late and is also of uncertain potential at test level.

So either Deans takes a punt with O'Connor (or huge punts with Foley or Lealiafano), a rather limited option in Barnes, or goes back to the devil he knows... who is hopefully a slightly improved player.

As for Mccabe - with Cooper at 1st5 you always had to have a strong tackler at 12 to try and cover for his misses (no need to worry about Mccabe anymore). QC has probably improved enough that they can consider diversifying with a 2nd playmaker in Lealiafano or O'Connor the fragile but experienced Barnes. You need one of the two midfielders to be physically capable of making hard yards against tough defences though... AAC is ok but that is not really his specialty...

[Dimmers]

As far as I am concerned, the sooner Deans goes back to anywhere else the better. So clearly incapable of doing the job that it is terrifying.

This is a bloke utterly bereft of any ideas.

Deans is simply a really stupid man.

amen brother

[Ken Gargett]

Quade Cooper played like crap the whole first half of the season (was even leading player on the giving away turnovers statistic).

IN DEFENCE - cooper was coming back from serious knee injuries that stuffed most of 2012 for him. it has taken some time but he was never 'crap'. below his best but if you want to look at stats, i think no player has a higher played/won ratio over the last three/four years than quade - not just for the aussies but across the entire super tournament. he must be doing something right. he gives away occasional turnovers because he tries things, takes risks - don't always come off but he won qld a super 14 title in 2011 (yes, team effort but no one, including genia, was anywhere near as influential as cooper). in 2012, quade played five games for us - we won all five, in an otherwise disappointing season. this year, we have been at or near the top of the comp all season.

Deans leaves him out of the training squad - message sent.

i think i have made my view of deans reasonably clear.

QC starts playing much better (mightily aided by the return from injury of the great Genia to hold his hand). He even starts tackling for the first time in his career (although as we saw in the last game it certainly still ain't his forte).

imagine a kiwi denigrating quade! leaving that aside, can you name me a fly half on the planet who would not play better outside genia? and given the combination, surely yet another reason to select him?

and the 'first time' is of course a load of crap. he is not the greatest tackler (too often tries to tackle and steal the ball at the same time - great when it works but...) but go ask ranger how he felt after quade tackled him. or barnes from several games. etc. etc. he can, but like every player, has misses.

QC will be in the squad, might even start at 10, for lack of other options. And this despite the tried tested formula that he wilts when under pressure at the highest level and is prone to unforced errors.

seriously, how much of quade have you seen? yes, was poor in the world cup - and ultimately irrelevant if there were reasons for it - but beyond that, when has he wilted? i'd suggest his first ever game of super 14 (back when the reds were crap and he was one of many). not many other occasions. have a look at the highlights of him v south africa. v ireland. and plenty of others. i think they'd love to play the wallabies sans quade.

the unforced errors do happen but it is for the reason above. he tries things and takes risks - things almost every other player can't envisage. lot of similarities to campo, tho quade has better defence. ys, not saying much.

Maybe he has even found out what playing for a team is about and bowing to team tactics.

that is, with respect, complete rubbish. he is one player who, possibly in a slightly eccentric manner, has devoted himself to his team. off-field, o'connor went from qld to the force to the rebels and probably nsw next year. beale - whoever pays. barnes, lied to qru management and then buggered off. cooper has, despite the endless interference from the aru, shown himself as completely devoted to the reds. tried to sign for longer than the aru would allow. no argument he has been and can be a complete idiot but please point out what has he done on a field that has not been in the interests of the team?

great quote in the guardian last week about bradman. he believed that what was in the interests of bradman was in the interests of the team. and he was right. cooper not bradman but mckenzie has allowed him to run the reds backline - far more than genia does - and it has worked. how is that not a team player?

O'Connor has shown he can animate a running attack but is still not really a first five and runs sideways a lot. Lealiafano was the candidate to take his jersey last year until he got injured and was shuffled to 12 for the brumbies. Barnes is not really a first five either just a semi-adequate cover and play-it-safe option taker. Beale has gone walkabout. Strangely, B "who?" Foley is probably the form specialist 1st5 but only as of late and is also of uncertain potential at test level.

l'fano was 'a' candidate, i would argue, not 'the' candidate. and was only in at fly half in the first place because of injury to others. in-centre seems much more his position.

As for Mccabe - with Cooper at 1st5 you always had to have a strong tackler at 12 to try and cover for his misses (no need to worry about Mccabe anymore).

leaving aside cooper's specific defence, how does it work having an in-centre there to cover a miss by a fly half? if he is spending his time doing that, he is not doing his job and he is out of position, surely?

[El Presidente]

Quade Cooper played like crap the whole first half of the season (was even leading player on the giving away turnovers statistic).

Deans leaves him out of the training squad - message sent.

QC starts playing much better (mightily aided by the return from injury of the great Genia to hold his hand). He even starts tackling for the first time in his career (although as we saw in the last game it certainly still ain't his forte).

Genia has been vastly inconsistent since his return from injury. Brilliant or

Coaches generally accept it takes a month for a player to get his game back after more than 6 weeks out due to injury.

QC will be in the squad, might even start at 10, for lack of other options. And this despite the tried tested formula that he wilts when under pressure at the highest level and is prone to unforced errors. This will be his big 2nd chance to show that he has matured enough to know when to kick and when to run, and to know the difference between shits and giggles super 15 and test rugby. Maybe he has even found out what playing for a team is about and bowing to team tactics

The Wallabies have never shown the capacity to play to tactics under Deans. Actually no one in Australia knows what the Deans "Culture of Play" for the wallabies is. He has only had 5 years to develop one. It is an awful indictment.

O'Connor has shown he can animate a running attack but is still not really a first five and runs sideways a lot. Lealiafano was the candidate to take his jersey last year until he got injured and was shuffled to 12 for the brumbies. Barnes is not really a first five either just a semi-adequate cover and play-it-safe option taker. Beale has gone walkabout. Strangely, B "who?" Foley is probably the form specialist 1st5 but only as of late and is also of uncertain potential at test level.

So either Deans takes a punt with O'Connor (or huge punts with Foley or Lealiafano), a rather limited option in Barnes, or goes back to the devil he knows... who is hopefully a slightly improved player.

Deans will do what he does best. Bugger it up. Unless I am mistaken Cooper has played 36 tests? take out the last 10 or so he has been good to excellent. The role of a coach is to get the best out of his players. It is one of the reasons Deans is an epic fail.

As for Mccabe - with Cooper at 1st5 you always had to have a strong tackler at 12 to try and cover for his misses (no need to worry about Mccabe anymore). QC has probably improved enough that they can consider diversifying with a 2nd playmaker in Lealiafano or O'Connor the fragile but experienced Barnes. You need one of the two midfielders to be physically capable of making hard yards against tough defences though... AAC is ok but that is not really his specialty...

Mccabe is a classic Deans appointment. Overrated, looks good on paper, a solid club footballer. Reminds me of Horne....another Deans appointment.

Your open flanker and 8 cover 10. 9 works as a pendulum behind the backline as the second last line before the fullback.

[frenchkiwi]

QC starts playing much better (mightily aided by the return from injury of the great Genia to hold his hand). He even starts tackling for the first time in his career (although as we saw in the last game it certainly still ain't his forte).

given the combination, surely yet another reason to select him? - for sure

and the 'first time' is of course a load of crap. he is not the greatest tackler. he can, but like every player, has misses.

- not like every player, even in 2011, he was third equal for number of missed tackles with none other than Danny "the other turnstile" Cipriani (bearing in mind that first fives don't even attempt half as many tackles as flankers). his technique was poor but this is the first year that it has clearly improved and the first year he is not in the top of the pops for missed tackles.

QC will be in the squad, might even start at 10, for lack of other options. And this despite the tried tested formula that he wilts when under pressure at the highest level and is prone to unforced errors.

seriously, how much of quade have you seen? have a look at the highlights of him v south africa. v ireland. and plenty of others.

i remember them well, v sth af and eire not shining examples of his play ... how many times did he fail at basic clearing kicks from his own 22 (either miscues or choosing not to and stuffing up - high risk no reward options). really the basics you'd expect from a first five. he has all the skills, good stepping and one of the best passes in the world, but has yet to show that he has the option-taking and can cut out basic mistakes in those crunch tests. he likes space, but there is often none at test level, and he panics where the larkhams carters step back and control games.

Maybe he has even found out what playing for a team is about and bowing to team tactics.

that is, with respect, complete rubbish.

great quote in the guardian last week about bradman. he believed that what was in the interests of bradman was in the interests of the team. and he was right. cooper not bradman but mckenzie has allowed him to run the reds backline - far more than genia does - and it has worked. how is that not a team player?

you've hit the nail on the head - with QC it has been "my way or the highway" - at test level they don't want him to play 7s and he calls it (and by extension all his teammates etc) a "toxic" environment. talk about not being a team player.

O'Connor has shown he can animate a running attack but is still not really a first five and runs sideways a lot. Lealiafano was the candidate to take his jersey last year until he got injured and was shuffled to 12 for the brumbies. Barnes is not really a first five either just a semi-adequate cover and play-it-safe option taker. Beale has gone walkabout. Strangely, B "who?" Foley is probably the form specialist 1st5 but only as of late and is also of uncertain potential at test level.

l'fano was 'a' candidate, i would argue, not 'the' candidate. and was only in at fly half in the first place because of injury to others. in-centre seems much more his position.

As for Mccabe - with Cooper at 1st5 you always had to have a strong tackler at 12 to try and cover for his misses (no need to worry about Mccabe anymore).

leaving aside cooper's specific defence, how does it work having an in-centre there to cover a miss by a fly half? if he is spending his time doing that, he is not doing his job and he is out of position, surely?

exactly. one of the reasons why QC has been a liability at test level. but he has clearly i repeat clearly improved his tackle technique this year, getting his shoulder in and driving off his legs rather than standing up and using his arms (most of the time - the howler last week being a lapse into old habits)

[Barnett107]

Keep at it guys, you've got him on the ropes! haha

I will be supporting the lions when the tour begins, being from the UK. That being said I much prefer the more open, free flowing game that the southern hemisphere teams play,(I never watch european rugby, always the Super 15) and I think Cooper optimises this. It seems to me that Deans is moving away from the teams natural strengths, which is odd?

I think that it is great shame that Cooper won't be playing. I think he is probably the 2nd best 10 in the game atm, behind Carter. (Not sure what the reaction to this will be, being an Aussie forum haha). The big shame for me is that beating the Wallabies on their own patch, sweet as it may be, just won't feel the same without Cooper playing. If you're going on tour to play a side, you want to play their best side, that way they have no excuses when you beat them.

P.S. This is a friendly post, and should be taken that way.

[frenchkiwi]

Deans will do what he does best. Bugger it up. Unless I am mistaken Cooper has played 36 tests? take out the last 10 or so he has been good to excellent. The role of a coach is to get the best out of his players. It is one of the reasons Deans is an epic fail.

Deans is a "my way or the highway" old-fashioned kind of coach who doesn't get on with the younger "indulged" generation. Self-expression and creativity aren't exactly his forte. Fine for canterbury rugby with its homogenous team culture, not so good for most teams nowadays. Graham Henry started out like that then publicly recanted that style during his time in Wales. You could see where the clash of styles with "badboy" stars like QC were going to come from.

Your open flanker and 8 cover 10. 9 works as a pendulum behind the backline as the second last line before the fullback.

yep they are the cover sweeping behind the defensive line but the guy covering in the first line of defence is the man next to you especially in the midfield where 2-man tackles are prevalent to prevent offloads

p.s. despite all my criticism of QC's record at test level, i still think he can nail it if he learns when to hold them and when to fold them. which generally means playing a bit more conservatively at the highest level unless the time is ripe. but i just heard that he missed out on the latest squad so even if he gets into final one, highly unlikely we'll see him in the lions tour. O'Connor has a short time to learn a lot...

injuries to George Smith and Polata-Nau, bad news. was really lookin forward to seeing Smith take on the Lions, and basically back to his best, 12 years later.

[Barnett107]

Just out of interest, anyone have an opinion on the Lions Squad?

Robshaw's exclusion?

[Ken Gargett]

.

Deans will do what he does best. Bugger it up. Unless I am mistaken Cooper has played 36 tests?

i was basing 38 on a quote by deans. checked the stats and it appears that deans has got one thing right. he is down for 38 tests.

[Ken Gargett]

I think that it is great shame that Cooper won't be playing. I think he is probably the 2nd best 10 in the game atm, behind Carter. (Not sure what the reaction to this will be, being an Aussie forum haha).

the three best i've ever seen are carter, mclean and lynagh. and i'd give the nod to carter. brilliant player. if mclean had played in the professional era, might have been different but if my uncle was my aunt, as they say...

[Ken Gargett]

and the 'first time' is of course a load of crap. he is not the greatest tackler. he can, but like every player, has misses.

- not like every player, even in 2011, he was third equal for number of missed tackles with none other than Danny "the other turnstile" Cipriani (bearing in mind that first fives don't even attempt half as many tackles as flankers). his technique was poor but this is the first year that it has clearly improved and the first year he is not in the top of the pops for missed tackles.

Equal fourth but point taken. This year he has played more minutes than any other player and yet is not even in the top 20 – not idea where he actually is. And yet deans picks him when he had a poor record but no won't pick him saying it needs to improve. The bloke is not even honest.

QC will be in the squad, might even start at 10, for lack of other options. And this despite the tried tested formula that he wilts when under pressure at the highest level and is prone to unforced errors.

seriously, how much of quade have you seen? have a look at the highlights of him v south africa. v ireland. and plenty of others.

i remember them well, v sth af and eire not shining examples of his play ... how many times did he fail at basic clearing kicks from his own 22 (either miscues or choosing not to and stuffing up - high risk no reward options). really the basics you'd expect from a first five. he has all the skills, good stepping and one of the best passes in the world, but has yet to show that he has the option-taking and can cut out basic mistakes in those crunch tests. he likes space, but there is often none at test level, and he panics where the larkhams carters step back and control games.

I suspect we will simply never agree on this. With the greatest respect, I think you are so far off the mark.

Maybe he has even found out what playing for a team is about and bowing to team tactics.

that is, with respect, complete rubbish.

great quote in the guardian last week about bradman. he believed that what was in the interests of bradman was in the interests of the team. and he was right. cooper not bradman but mckenzie has allowed him to run the reds backline - far more than genia does - and it has worked. how is that not a team player?

you've hit the nail on the head - with QC it has been "my way or the highway" - at test level they don't want him to play 7s and he calls it (and by extension all his teammates etc) a "toxic" environment. talk about not being a team player.

Again within respect, I find this complete crap – he has never insisted on anything like that, to my knowledge and I have never heard it from anyone involved with him.

[Ken Gargett]

and one final word on deans - i see where he has now come out and bagged cooper publicly, which he has been doing pretty much since the team was announced whereas at least cooper has finally had the sense and decency to keep quiet, for being the cause of the fall in form for ben tapaui. allegedly not giving him the opportunities etc etc. cooper leads the entire competition in offloads. how many opportunities does he want?

i had heard that despite his massive incompetency and deficiencies as a coach, he was not a bad bloke. not any more. what a classless appalling act. talk to cooper and explain that (right or wrong) but don't come out and bag your player publicly.

of course, nothing personal. what a liar. and how much of this is simply because cooper has been extremely successful under the coaching of mckenzie whereas deans has failed with him. this bloke could not coach a hooker into bed.

and he promised to call those not in the squad to advise them before the team announcement. he did but not cooper. nothing. left him hanging. not even the decency to do that. what a grub.

he has done nothing since the team was announced but go around justifying himself and bagging cooper. what does it take for the ARU to work out what a disaster, at every level, this bloke is.

[El Presidente]

Just out of interest, anyone have an opinion on the Lions Squad?

Robshaw's exclusion?

I thought the squad is very solid. Good size and speed in the backs. I am not sure it instills the fear of God into the opposition but we will need to play better than anything we have produced in the past couple of years to win.

[mazolaman]

Just out of interest, anyone have an opinion on the Lions Squad?

Robshaw's exclusion?

Yeah, I'm a bit gutted that Robshaw isn't going, but he did look knackered by the end of the season. I would certainly pick him over Tipuric.

That kicking by Wales didn't help some England players chances..but I guess he was always gonna be Welsh led.

I'm not sure Warburton has the balls to lead a team in Australia..he's failed there before.

Anyway, I hope Australia does pick Cooper, as I want to see the "Australian" Kiwi vs the "Scottish" Kiwi (Sean Maitland)..who apparently plaid together as kids....tsk, modern international sport....

[Ken Gargett]

Anyway, I hope Australia does pick Cooper, as I want to see the "Australian" Kiwi vs the "Scottish" Kiwi (Sean Maitland)..who apparently plaid together as kids....tsk, modern international sport....

not just played together, they are cousins.

[frenchkiwi]

and one final word on deans - i see where he has now come out and bagged cooper publicly, which he has been doing pretty much since the team was announced whereas at least cooper has finally had the sense and decency to keep quiet, for being the cause of the fall in form for ben tapaui. allegedly not giving him the opportunities etc etc. cooper leads the entire competition in offloads. how many opportunities does he want?

i agree. just saw a vid of the press conf, typical awkward answers, reminds me of when John Mitchell dropped Cullen and went on about his thumb grip when carrying the ball. nonsense. deans, you've dropped him because he doesn't fit what you want for the team, say it straight and leave it at that, tell the journos to move on. bagging his defence when it has improved etc are really poor excuses.

very poor behaviour for any coach.

[El Presidente]

I think that it is great shame that Cooper won't be playing. I think he is probably the 2nd best 10 in the game atm, behind Carter. (Not sure what the reaction to this will be, being an Aussie forum haha).

Carter is the best 10 I have witnessed. He is simply ruthless in the way he executes play. His vision is arguably not as good as Coopers but his ability to assess risk in options available is streets ahead.

You also won't see Carter commenting on team appointments, negative team culture, a nightclub photo, or hamming it up in a Spa with mates. Of course...the mates in Coopers case will be our other No 10 contenders in O'Connor and Beale!

Barnes wasn't involved in the Spa....mind you it is rumoured he injured himself hopping in

Barnes may end up being the type of person Deans is looking for (steady). However you can't say he has had any more success at 10 than Cooper. The backline secret against the lions can't be running centres at big centres. There needs to be a wide expanse of play and slight of hand bringing into effect Folau, Digby, O'Connor etal. Barnes isn't the man for that. He is however the man to play a crash and bash game. It is somewhere we don't want to go.

Beale can be as eclectic as cooper. His defence is little better. No gain.

O'Connor is unproven at this level at no 10. His defence is little better than Coopers. No gain.

Beale, Barnes, O'Connor (who let's face it is likely to get a head knock and come off) have played very little rugby this year.

All in all a no brainer. If Cooper fails in the first test, O'Connor can slot in during the game and post tests. Deans really loses nothing. If Cooper plays poorly he can say " I gave him a shot". if he plays well or brilliantly he can take credit for "motivating him and creating a world class international no 10".

The above is the reason I hold hope that Cooper will be No 10. Deans for all his deficiencies as a coach/motivator couldn't be so stupid as to not know that handled right....he wins either way.

[frenchkiwi]

I thought the squad is very solid. Good size and speed in the backs. I am not sure it instills the fear of God into the opposition but we will need to play better than anything we have produced in the past couple of years to win.

fear of God ... i thought the worrying thing from a lions perspective is that probably 60odd% of the matchday squad will be from a wales outfit that found a way to lose to a heavily-injury-depleted australia about a zillion times last year.

and a welsh team that was great in '11-12 but poor in '12-13 apart from that last english win.

but apart from that i found it hard to quibble too much with the player selections... compared to 2001 i think they are solid but maybe lacking the x-factor of a robinson or a quinnell, or an electric young o'driscoll.

on the other hand, the wallabies will have less of an established squad this time

[ARRV]

and one final word on deans - i see where he has now come out and bagged cooper publicly, which he has been doing pretty much since the team was announced whereas at least cooper has finally had the sense and decency to keep quiet, for being the cause of the fall in form for ben tapaui. allegedly not giving him the opportunities etc etc. cooper leads the entire competition in offloads. how many opportunities does he want?

i had heard that despite his massive incompetency and deficiencies as a coach, he was not a bad bloke. not any more. what a classless appalling act. talk to cooper and explain that (right or wrong) but don't come out and bag your player publicly.

of course, nothing personal. what a liar. and how much of this is simply because cooper has been extremely successful under the coaching of mckenzie whereas deans has failed with him. this bloke could not coach a hooker into bed.

and he promised to call those not in the squad to advise them before the team announcement. he did but not cooper. nothing. left him hanging. not even the decency to do that. what a grub.

he has done nothing since the team was announced but go around justifying himself and bagging cooper. what does it take for the ARU to work out what a disaster, at every level, this bloke is.

When Deans first came on the scene i thought he would be good - bit of fresh air etc.

Then the world cup where Giteau was left out and the tactics were rubbish - losing to Ireland to end up playing NZ in the semi (after having to play SA) etc etc.

Hanging Cooper out to dry in NZ when clearly the guy needed support including being told to shut his mouth and hiding him from the press. But no Deans cut him loose - one wonders whether a scape goat was needed in case of disappointment.

But generally I think he just doesnt understand the Aussie psyche - we are generally (slightly) different in attitude to NZers and his man management skills showed he didnt know how to deal with the players or get the best out of them. Playing the grumpy South Islander may work with kiwis but probably not Aussies - i think we prefer our grumpy with a laconic smile.

Now with his treatment of Cooper - including the "I tried to get hold of him by phone but couldnt" when he promised to tell those who missed out of the squad personally - I mean really?? - couldnt get his mobile number? tried once and then hung up or simply pretended to dial the numbers. Just not good enough. And now he has gone and bagged him publicly to justify his exclusion when everyone is simply asking why on earth was he not picked. Hardly an unsurprising question and one he must have expected. In reality everyone knows it is because he doesn't like him and QC could score 1,000 points in his remaining Super rugby games this season and still not be picked.

Anyway this simply has to be his last series and McKenzie has to take over. With O'Neil gone he surely cannot be guaranteed of his place and it is time to get someone else in.