I have had an "Effing" gut full

[cckandb24]

Ray my friend where do you live. I'm petitioning for you to be a write in on the ballot in November. We need a real patriot to clear all the knucklehead progressives out of office.

[cckandb24]

Piggy for President.

[snickers99]

The hatred for all things tobacco is now a firmly held principle of the left. Combine this with their love of governmental activism and you get what you've now got. We vote lefties in because we're sure they love children, whales, sex, fairness, and peace. What we get is the realization of ALL of the leftist agenda backed by the full force of government power. Hate right wingers, their guns, their religion, their selfishness? Are conservatives uncool hypocrites who talk about individual rights and private property to cover for their racist corporate greed? Vote liberal then. If you do then my advice is 'smoke 'em while you've got 'em!'

Naturally, Ray's got my vote!

[PigFish]

Piggy 2012

Founder, solitary member of the Pig Party!

First decree, support our generous host, fine businessman and my friend. Kiss baby... walk off stage RIGHT! -LOL Thank you for your support.-The Pig

[frenchkiwi]

i actually agree with heavier regulation on the nicotine-delivery industry i.e. cigarette manufacturers.

they cost the taxpayer gazillions in healthcare expenses every year for those who get addicted (which is the aim of the product), and the manufacturers make huge profits. Tax and regulate them into the dust i say.

but we cigar smokers, and probably most pipe smokers for that matter, are the collateral damage of the public health crusade against tobacco (and the casual cigarette smokers - who should really save their tastebuds and take up cigars). No worsened health outcomes for probably 95% of our lot.

the only solution i can think of (for cigars) is to ensure that 100% natural fermented tobacco is treated as a completely different product in legislation on the basis of health outcomes (since that is the basis for the crusade against cigarettes).

this requires: a/ a decent medical study as there is little out there ... b/ the ear of the powerful

as a minority group in democracies it kinda looks like mission impossible but like all the other causes it requires good lobbying, organisation, and time (and deep pockets).

shouting "no to big government" is just as simplistic and misleading as "no to tobacco/smoking" ... neither is helpful in this case, teasing out a reasonable solution is in between. and a message that is a hell of a lot harder to get across.

i'm trying to write a submission for a plain packaging / end of duty free tobacco bill here in NZ ... anyone got any good stuff i can draw on?

[healthwise, this is the best i've got: schneiderman summary and summary of studies ]

[PigFish]

i actually agree with heavier regulation on the nicotine-delivery industry i.e. cigarette manufacturers.

they cost the taxpayer gazillions in healthcare expenses every year for those who get addicted (which is the aim of the product), and the manufacturers make huge profits. Tax and regulate them into the dust i say.

but we cigar smokers, and probably most pipe smokers for that matter, are the collateral damage of the public health crusade against tobacco (and the casual cigarette smokers - who should really save their tastebuds and take up cigars). No worsened health outcomes for probably 95% of our lot.

the only solution i can think of (for cigars) is to ensure that 100% natural fermented tobacco is treated as a completely different product in legislation on the basis of health outcomes (since that is the basis for the crusade against cigarettes).

this requires: a/ a decent medical study as there is little out there ... b/ the ear of the powerful

as a minority group in democracies it kinda looks like mission impossible but like all the other causes it requires good lobbying, organisation, and time (and deep pockets).

shouting "no to big government" is just as simplistic and misleading as "no to tobacco/smoking" ... neither is helpful in this case, teasing out a reasonable solution is in between. and a message that is a hell of a lot harder to get across.

i'm trying to write a submission for a plain packaging / end of duty free tobacco bill here in NZ ... anyone got any good stuff i can draw on?

[healthwise, this is the best i've got: schneiderman summary and summary of studies ]

Completely disagree with you mate. Moderates, not understanding individual liberty and or a big government agenda are a major part of the problem. Centrism deserves no respect from either side and is often the pawn of both!!! Pandering to centrists just gets you to tyranny a little slower. JMHO. The left certainly relies on those willing to barter their freedom for a little government aid.

Cheers anyway. -the Pig

[smpf67]

We have the same crap here in the U.S. More bureaucrats = the ruin of a Nation!