NBA Playoffs

[Yoruba Hacker]

I am as big a Celtics Fan as they come, and I truely believe the Celts are just too beat up and lost too many players to beat that Heat. That being said, The Celts are Warriors and should have won that game last night, the Refs are worst I have seen in a long time. (Entire NBA has horrible officiating) LeBUM gets all the calls, Celts were robbed on 2 no calls where Rhondo Dove on the floor and got called for a foul on LeBum, then Wade Face Racked Rhondo on a drive, went uncalled and lead to Heat Fast break that essentially won the game in OT.. JEEZZZZZZZZ. ROBBED!!! I hate the REFS!!

In Nigeria we have a word we use when we come across such an outburst as above:

We say, "EXACTLY!"

They are more injured than old, and perhaps some are injured because they're old, but Jeff Greene and Avery Bradley aren't old, and if those boys were playing we'd be talking split at worst.

What is old is Rondo continuing to get disrespected by the refs. No one goes to the hole and takes as much contact as he does without getting calls, especially a third team NBA player. I'm about to have a stroke over it.

The margin of error is small enough without he refs further handicapping a proud and wounded team. Rondo deserved better. Best performance by a point guard ever in the playoffs. Ever.

[mk05]

As a team, we live and die by KG. He did ok there last night. One thing I like about the celtics as a team is that when one falls, another alwayd steps up to fill the void. Yesterday it was Rondo for Pierce.

I think we should play Greg stiemsma over Bass purely on stat but hey, I'm no basketball coach.

[khomeinist]

Ever? Hmm. Magic and Isaiah might have to disagree.

The officiating was horrible last night. On this we can agree.

[nikesupremedunk]

Rondo was truly amazing but neither teams are going to be a match for spurs. I can't wait for tonight's game..maybe spurs will have their 21st win in a row?

[coblos]

I can't wait for tonight's game..maybe spurs will have their 21st win in a row?

I hope not, that would be boring. Plus I just placed a bet against a team on a 20 game win streak.

[ramon_cojones]

First boston needs to lose this series, then miami needs to lose in the finals and everything will be gravy.

[Yoruba Hacker]

Ever? Hmm. Magic and Isaiah might have to disagree.

The officiating was horrible last night. On this we can agree.

That was nearly a direct quote from Magic; he of the 42/15/7 his rookie year against the Sixers. Did you watch the postgame?

Besides that, it also happens to be factually correct. Only 6 have gone 40+ 10+ 8+. None of the others did it in a playoff game, and none of them scored 44. In fact, Magic started his comments by saying something like "I've seen a lot of phenomenal performances; I've seen Isiah score 25 in one quarter, but that was the greatest performance I've ever seen."

And an aside; Isiah is my all time favorite player, and I watched Magic beat Sixers who were my favorite team at the time (Dr. J) in that rookie year performance, so I'm not throwing it out easily. It was sick.

[TexAg]

Being from near San Antonio....

GO SPURS GO!!!

[khomeinist]

Magic is a hype man for ESPN and whomever else is willing to enlist his services (LA Dodgers? lol)

A great performance is ALWAYS capped with a WIN.

Call me old-school. I like a victory to accompany an individual performance.

[ramon_cojones]

^same, wouldn't put too much stock into what magic says nowadays even though I grew up a show time (and dodgers) fan when I was a kid

[ramon_cojones]

Thunder destroyed the spurs tonight wow.

[nikesupremedunk]

Yup it was pretty interesting..didn't expect that to happen. Tonight's game will be very interesting too..

[mk05]

As the Shaqtus said in game 1, "okc didnt play the best basketball." SA plays real clean, but it's hard to compete with the endurance of such young talented phenoms.

[Yoruba Hacker]

Magic is a hype man for ESPN and whomever else is willing to enlist his services (LA Dodgers? lol)

A great performance is ALWAYS capped with a WIN.

Call me old-school. I like a victory to accompany an individual performance.

There's a couple of things here:

1) Dismissing the perspective of arguably the greatest player ever at the position,

2) Dismissing Jordan's 63 against 5 future Hall of Famers on the Celtics, considered the greatest playoff performance overall by many, based on the above criteria and,

3) The fact that you're the one who introduced Magic into the convo in the first place, thus effectively conveying upon him an authority that you then negate in your next post.

I mean, it's not that big a deal, but those are headscratchers to me. Opinions all. I thought it was pretty great. Though, the more I think about it, Isiah's 25 in a quarter against the Lakers was outrageous. I may be confusing games, but I think he was basically on one leg!

[khomeinist]

1) I take Magic seriously as a player, not as an analyst.

2) Did I dismiss Jordan? No. I just said that a 'best' performance should include a victory. My perspective is not unique. I think you are feigning confusion as a rhetorical ploy. Jordan had many amazing games. Most involved victory.

3) see point one. I introduced Magic as a player, not as an analyst.

[mk05]

Would your perspective change if the comment regarding Rondo were made by Jordan? Riley?

If Mario Lemieux and Waynr Gretzky watches Sidney Crosby play and say, "this kid is the real deal." Does it matter whether or not they were athletes or analysts?

I would opine that such an observation from them would still be counted, since their status carries weight.

[Yoruba Hacker]

1) I take Magic seriously as a player, not as an analyst.

2) Did I dismiss Jordan? No. I just said that a 'best' performance should include a victory. My perspective is not unique. I think you are feigning confusion as a rhetorical ploy. Jordan had many amazing games. Most involved victory.

3) see point one. I introduced Magic as a player, not as an analyst.

This is getting waay off topic, but now I'm not really sure what an analyst is and when the player and analyst begin and end. It's legitimate confusion by the way, because I don't get how Magic as a player's opinion differs from Magic as an analyst. For example, in that Isiah game (which Magic played in), if at the end of that game someone interviewed Magic and he said "That was the greatest performance of all time," would that version of Magic's opinion carry more weight than today's "weightier" Magic's? Or are you just saying that you don't care what Magic says just how he plays/played? But then why reference his potential pushback? See what I mean?

The more interesting question is what makes a good analyst. I stay up later just to hear Charles and Kenny's opinons of the game, which I think are super insightful and often hilarious. Who do you respect as an analyst and why?

Jordan's "best" game was a loss.

<Sorry, posted this before seeing MK's post, which is kinda similar>

[khomeinist]

True playas don't get up on another man's jock. Lol.

All in fun guys. Charles and Kenny are the shizz. Nuff said.

There is something disingenuous about Magic's analysis to me, but what do I know. I am a friggin Warriors fan.

Cheers guys.

[nikesupremedunk]

Now the series has gotten even more interesting...both east and west tied! Really can't tell who's gona win this one...

[Yoruba Hacker]

I take back everything I ever said about Danny Ainge. These Celtics are no freakin joke. Goes to show you how far heart, grit and guts can take you.

Reviewing it in my head, it's been quite a run:

Year 1 they win it all.

Year 2 they were the best team in the league but KG goes down for the end of the season. Still, they were up 3-2 against the eventual Eastern Conference Champ Magic in the second round.

Year 3 KG takes a while to get it back together, but they get to the finals as a fourth seed in the East and were up 3-2 before Perk got hurt.

Last year they were a MASH unit with geriatrics at the 5 position, but were on their way to tying the Heat 2-2 before Rondo blew out his elbow. Game over after that.

This year they're about to beat the Heat and go to the finals as a five seed. It's just amazing.

[mk05]

So they paid a ludicrous multiple on present value for diminishing returns of future value? KG, Ray, both pretty much done after this year right? In terms of useful life. I mean, there is absolutely no depth. If one player goes out then it's all over. Yea sounds like the Celtics. Maybe we'll trade another decade for one all star jumpshooter next year.

The management rolled the dice. Seemed like it was a 5yr plan. Then what? Hand it off like Tito/Dr Creepy, and the management that fired Mike O'Connell in 06. Worked out well for the Bruins though, since Mike had already built a solid core and draft chart before upper management cut him loose. Now the bruins are to fizzle without the eye for talent/development. Look how well the Kings are doing now thanks to Boston!

I know, let's take this model and pile up the national debt so our country is competitive now, provide more federal services that we cant pay for, all while sacrificing innovation and stripping the country of future potential, because most people are won't realize what happened in ten years! Oh wait, we already do that. Carry on.

[Scdalak]

[Yoruba Hacker]

So they paid a ludicrous multiple on present value for diminishing returns of future value? KG, Ray, both pretty much done after this year right? In terms of useful life. I mean, there is absolutely no depth. If one player goes out then it's all over. Yea sounds like the Celtics. Maybe we'll trade another decade for one all star jumpshooter next year.

The management rolled the dice. Seemed like it was a 5yr plan. Then what? Hand it off like Tito/Dr Creepy, and the management that fired Mike O'Connell in 06. Worked out well for the Bruins though, since Mike had already built a solid core and draft chart before upper management cut him loose. Now the bruins are to fizzle without the eye for talent/development. Look how well the Kings are doing now thanks to Boston!

Not really sure where you're going with this, but to quote the estimable Bob Ryan, this is the fifth year of a three year plan, which looks like it may yield three spots in the Championship in those five years. Who's better than that? Again, that second year KG got hurt, they were destroying the league, and would have repeated. Unless Sebastian Telfair, Ryan Gomes and Wally Szerbiak are your cousins, I'm not sure how you **** on this deal. And the results.

The lack of depth is due to injury, not bad trades. I think Avery Bradley is gonna be a stud in this league. Who could have known that Jeff Green and Chris Wilcox would have heart issues. Before that they showed promise. Marquis had some weird health issue as well, but is sorting his way through it it seems. The only bad trade-the-future-for-the-present thing was Perk (see: Jeff Green, Jermaine and Shaquille O'Neal), but you can't see the future. And if KG and Ray don't come back, HUGE cap space. What else do you want? As long as Rondo is here and healthy along with Pierce, they're never gonna do worse than challenge for the Eastern Conference Championship.

That said, I want KG back. No one else I'm dying to have over the next two seasons or so, which is all you can really think in terms of. No idea what you're talking about re done for his useful life. He's the only competition for Rondo as Playoff MVP, and has gotten better over the course of this weird strike-shortened season. Better. Doc is right when he said at the beginning of the season "They're not old. They're just out of shape cause they really didn't think there would be a season."

[mk05]

I will endeavor to answer your query.

So they paid a ludicrous multiple on present value for diminishing returns of future value? KG, Ray, both pretty much done after this year right? In terms of useful life. I mean, there is absolutely no depth. If one player goes out then it's all over. Yea sounds like the Celtics. Maybe we'll trade another decade for one all star jumpshooter next year.

The management rolled the dice. Seemed like it was a 5yr plan. Then what? Hand it off like Tito/Dr Creepy, and the management that fired Mike O'Connell in 06. Worked out well for the Bruins though, since Mike had already built a solid core and draft chart before upper management cut him loose. Now the bruins are to fizzle without the eye for talent/development. Look how well the Kings are doing now thanks to Boston!

-That is where I'm going with this.

-I would hope a team would get into championship rounds with this type of money and players who are on the denouement of their careers. Otherwise you would be the 2010 redsux right? Atm, we have only won one, and if you say that we have a decent shot coming off this to OKC/SA, I would have to call you a liar.

-It's not as much as trading crap for crap, but trading for future talent. So we get 5 years like I estimated. What's next. Who can we really bring in at this time? Like I said before, maybe a good jump shooter to build on Rondo. Who's out there in the timeline?

-Yes lack of depth. That is the easiest thing to spot on this team. You name all these people who I would not use more than 10 min combined in a competitive game. Jeff Green was awful to begin with. No finish in him. Athletic for sure, but not a player. You tell me you'd put Marquis for more than 10m a game and I'd call you a liar. Absolutely no depth, no plan for the future.

-Yes, you draft and plan for the future. That's what draft and mgmt teams do.

-Yes, you amortize useful life of players over the contract. Otherwise you get some idiot paying a gdp of a small country for a person named Pujols.

-I bet you would want KG back. I bet every secretly-sweating-about-next-year Celtics fan prays for KGs return. There is no Celtics without paint control.

There are ones who have an eye for talent. There are ones who fill short term expectations. Mike O'Connell was one for that, and I was hoping the example of how he completely changed the Bruins and the now LA Kings exemplified that. Joe Maddon. Bill Belichick. Wise men over idiots like Norv and Jerry Jones - although his P/L model is clearly different.

[khomeinist]

Lol. Lots of rambling there. Three finals appearances in five years is quite an accomplishment. Why did Boston become such a whiny sports town? All your teams have won in last decade. Cry me a river.

Draft development. Yeah. Just like Oakland A's. How has that played out? Portland Trailblazers? There is more than one way to win a title. Boston needs a new SG. Otherwise they look like a strong contender for next year.

That bit comparing sports management to national budget priorities didn't make much sense to me. Sacrificing innovation? Who is interested in that?

If you want a crap team that regularly mortgages the future, look at the Knicks or Redskins. Not the Celtics who actually WON.