US confiscates policeman’s Cuban cigar cash

[Phillycyclocross]

Here's a bit more detail:

Link

Wow, that's bullshit. I hope they get this guy his money back.

[Rushman]

Personally I gotta believe there is some other facts unknown to us and unprinted by the media. Am I surprised that the US overstepped jurisdiction, no. I would be terribly surprised to learn this was merely a cigar purchase wire transfer. Using intermediary banks is nothing new but I am surprised one was needed for a intra-European transfer.

---

I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=20.631824,-87.070665

[rckymtn22]

I think it has something to do with the amount of money transferred.

[spirit]

No other word for it than "bonkers"

[Squarehead]

Typical of the US-Goverment.They have to stick their noses into everbodies affairs but God forbidd if anyone would do the same to them they would declare a war on them.If one would dig up dirt from every single American Politician I don't think the USA would have a Government.

[Rushman]

If one would dig up dirt from every single American Politician.......

I agree. I also think its universal. Politicians are universally corrupt, to some degree or another.

---

I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=20.631844,-87.070618

[ptrthgr8]

...I don't think the USA would have a Government.

Someday, man. We'll be there someday.

[Habanos2000]

While at face value the confiscation of this non US citizen's money does not appear proper, and I would hesitate a guess that most US citizens would probably agree with me on that point, who knows the whole story?

I also hope we don't see any more US bashing on this post. We should all know where that leads to.

[Orion21]

Anyone else questioning a policeman spending over 18k EURO on cigars at one time???? This story is absolutely only being partially reported. The US government doesn't just snag up people's money for buying Cuban cigars. There has to be a lot more to this...

[Fuzz]

From what I've read, the cop was planning on reselling the cigars through his small business. So that kinda explains the amount of cash.

[TonyV]

The bank -the name of the bank that backs his credit card-if it's Hq is in the US -then it is subject to US laws,I'm not saying i like it-but getting his money back will be a long and arduous ordeal at best.The worst is he's screwed

[SethG]

Not to agitate the Canadians, but when it comes to drugs simply passing through a Canadian airport between two foreign airports... Well Canada doesn't consider it a foreign transaction anymore.

US laws applying overseas is well established, for example in sex tourism cases. If a foreigner were to travel through the US on their way to Thailand to partake in some sex tourism, you can bet your farm that the foreigner will be arrested passing through again.

Larger issues are about the Internet, tearing down the bodog poker address or arresting the mega upload guy in NZ. This is quite tame by comparison.

Why is this guy not asking his bank why they send his money to the US before Germany?

[Phillycyclocross]

I agree. I also think its universal. Politicians are universally corrupt, to some degree or another.

Couldn't agree more. Study Greek and Roman history and you'll see politicians have been corrupt since they invented the word politician.

[CanuckSARTech]

Not to agitate the Canadians, but when it comes to drugs simply passing through a Canadian airport between two foreign airports... Well Canada doesn't consider it a foreign transaction anymore.

US laws applying overseas is well established, for example in sex tourism cases. If a foreigner were to travel through the US on their way to Thailand to partake in some sex tourism, you can bet your farm that the foreigner will be arrested passing through again.

Larger issues are about the Internet, tearing down the bodog poker address or arresting the mega upload guy in NZ. This is quite tame by comparison.

Why is this guy not asking his bank why they send his money to the US before Germany?

Nope, I don't think so. I don't buy this argument in the least.

Drugs passing through an airport? Well, in that scenario, likely the drugs are actually illegal (possessing them, transporting them, whatever). Sex tourism? Again, something that's nearly universally illegal, and they'd be prosecuted according to their home nation.

This is about the U.S. embargo against Cuba. It bars U.S. citizens, or international businesses dealing with the U.S. in their business, from spending U.S. coin in Cuba, etc., etc., etc. The U.S. embargo is NOT an internationally recognized or followed law. It has no bearing on non-U.S., European citizens, doing business within the EU on a legal and accepted business transaction.

Again, there's a lot here pending more info - whether this is tied to anything else, missing info, etc. But, on the face of it, an EU policeman purchasing within the EU of a legal item for his small business, and the U.S. steps in to confiscate? Nah, that sounds messed up. Its nothing in comparison to drugs going through an international airport, or sex tourism, etc.

[Ken Gargett]

as silly as it seems, it does appear that the transaction, whether to the knowledge of the indivual or not, involved a US bank, which is subject to US laws. surely the eminently more sensible thing would have been for the US bank to have refused to have been involved. just told the euro bank to find another way. this way, the US bank has placed itself in a position where it is a pseudo enforcement agency for the US govt (can't imagine any bank being happy being in that position).

the result is likely to be, on the assumption that this bloke proceeds against his bank, that in future euro banks are far more careful about dealing with US banks and far more likely not to so. which ends up hurting the US banks through loss of business.

so, with the greatest respect to the gentleman who hoped for no more States-bashing - it is a braindead, moronic situation put in place by imbecilies and maintained by even greater idiots. if monty python had done a sketch inventing the cuban embargo by the States, it would have been rejected as being so utterly absurd that no one could ever imagine it. and the fact that self-interested grubby corrupt politicians with their collective snouts shoved so far into the trough that they are in danger of disappearing (a situation far from limited to the States - and if only they would disappear), have persisted with it for half a century is a monumental disgrace and should make every single american hang their heads in shame.

[SethG]

Nope, I don't think so. I don't buy this argument in the least.

Drugs passing through an airport? Well, in that scenario, likely the drugs are actually illegal (possessing them, transporting them, whatever). Sex tourism? Again, something that's nearly universally illegal, and they'd be prosecuted according to their home nation.

This is about the U.S. embargo against Cuba. It bars U.S. citizens, or international businesses dealing with the U.S. in their business, from spending U.S. coin in Cuba, etc., etc., etc. The U.S. embargo is NOT an internationally recognized or followed law. It has no bearing on non-U.S., European citizens, doing business within the EU on a legal and accepted business transaction.

Again, there's a lot here pending more info - whether this is tied to anything else, missing info, etc. But, on the face of it, an EU policeman purchasing within the EU of a legal item for his small business, and the U.S. steps in to confiscate? Nah, that sounds messed up. Its nothing in comparison to drugs going through an international airport, or sex tourism, etc.

It is illegal in the US to do business with cuba outside of strict guidelines. I think it's pretty obvious his bank elected to do business with a US bank and to ask them to break the law by facilitating the transaction. Just as if they had participated in a drug transaction.

I get that the US embargo is not an international crime, but then how did this happen? Is it possible that based on treaties that US law gains international authority without being international law? How was Kim Dotcom arrested in new Zealand as an NZ citizen? When his crime is so clearly based on vague US claims, and he never set foot in the US?

I would suggest that the US law in fact has international rights, based on treaties signed with other countries, and that it's likely this cop's bank sent the money through a US bank which in turn was asking the US bank to commit a very real crime. If people overseas want to live free of unusual US laws, I think it's logical that they don't ask US entities to participate.

[Fuzz]

Sex tourism is illegal? You mean I can't organise vacation for a little foreign nookie?

And here I thought that was the whole selling point of companies like Trafalgar Tours; 2 weeks of sex in foreign lands, with complete strangers you just met, interspersed with a little sight-seeing...

[Rushman]

so, with the greatest respect to the gentleman who hoped for no more States-bashing - it is a braindead, moronic situation put in place by imbecilies and maintained by even greater idiots. if monty python had done a sketch inventing the cuban embargo by the States, it would have been rejected as being so utterly absurd that no one could ever imagine it. and the fact that self-interested grubby corrupt politicians with their collective snouts shoved so far into the trough that they are in danger of disappearing (a situation far from limited to the States - and if only they would disappear), have persisted with it for half a century is a monumental disgrace and should make every single american hang their heads in shame.

Much respect Ken......but while there are a great many things my country has done that might make one hang their head in shame, I just won't do it and would have little respect for anyone who did. Say what you want about the motivations behind placing the embargo and keeping it all these many years, it's not a decision I or any other single citizen had a role in. And of course the benefit of freedom is that opinions can differ freely.

Happy or not with our country's past or present, the only thing one should hang their heads in shame about are their own personal individual dirty deeds.

---

I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=20.631712,-87.070640

[TonyV]

As far as the US bank asking not to be involved,there were no people involved to give this guy a heads up,this was a computer putting up a red flag and stopping the process and the money.As to Euro banks not doing business with US banks,the debts they carry are in US dollars,right now they have limited options.As for the politicians,well they suck worldwide,do US politicians have an agenda with Cuba,yes.Is it wrong,i think it is.However unless i myself do something which i know is shameful,it will be a cold day in hell before i ever hang my head in shame.Shame on you if you would bow your head in shame for any other reason.

[Ken Gargett]

i'd be guessing that those making responses here have not been to cuba and seen what that extraordinarily inequitious policy has done to a nation. you might not be so quick to dismiss it.

as i have said in the past, i lived in the states for a period and loved it - and almost ended there permanently. it was almost down to the toss of a coin. so i do know the good side to america in many ways and the good they have done around the world. they have also done a great deal of harm, a bit much of it maliciously. and yes, i know that will open up all sorts of potential discussions. i've met too many americans who genuinely didn't know why they were not universally loved and really believed that bullying (in some cases) was merely the act of a benevolent parent helping out her children (as in the rest of the world).

i will not recoil from my view that the american actions pertaining to cuba have been utterly shameful, petty, appalling - you name it. if individuals pushed their politicioans hard enough then perhaps this would have been long resolved. seriously, this current example shows how beyond bizarre it is (however, as for individuals, there is plenty that the aussie govt has done that i would be disgusted to be associated with - and i have not taken to the streets in protest, so i am no better).

i guess it goes back to the old edmund burke quote that all that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.

[sblevit]

^ With all due respect, America is not responsible for what is wrong with Cuba. There's a fellow (or two) named Castro that you might want to Google before making such statements. I am certain that if Cuba were to adopt capitalism today then, regardless or any US embargo, Cuba would be a whole different kind of place in a very short period of time (for the better).

[ptrthgr8]

i'd be guessing that those making responses here have not been to cuba and seen what that extraordinarily inequitious policy has done to a nation. you might not be so quick to dismiss it.

Ah... so... Cuba's issues have nothing to do with Communism. Well, now I know what your bias is. Neat.

i will not recoil from my view that the american actions pertaining to cuba have been utterly shameful, petty, appalling - you name it. if individuals pushed their politicioans hard enough then perhaps this would have been long resolved. seriously, this current example shows how beyond bizarre it is

You, sir, apparently cannot differentiate between the American people and the American gov't. "If individuals pushed their politicians hard enough." Indeed. You clearly have no clue how a large centralized gov't like we have in the US actually works. You clearly have no idea how corporatism and a self-perpetuating big gov't leviathan have made it so the average Joe here in the US really has no say in anything the centralized national gov't actually does.

(however, as for individuals, there is plenty that the aussie govt has done that i would be disgusted to be associated with - and i have not taken to the streets in protest, so i am no better).

Ah. Call the kettle black much?

I would personally love to see the embargo lifted; it makes no sense to not lift it. But that's simply not going to happen until the Castros are gone and the Cuban nation moves away from a "Communist" gov't. Wrong or right, that's just the way it is.

I will not hang my head in shame simply because some moderator on a cigar forum suggested I do so. I don't feel shame for things over which I have no control.

Cheers,

~ Greg ~

[CanuckSARTech]

And.....how 'bout them Detroit Tigers???????

[capnshazam]

Saw a pic the other day that said snooki's due date is dec 21 2012...well played Mayans...well played.

[Rushman]

i'd be guessing that those making responses here have not been to cuba and seen what that extraordinarily inequitious policy has done to a nation. you might not be so quick to dismiss it.

as i have said in the past, i lived in the states for a period and loved it - and almost ended there permanently. it was almost down to the toss of a coin. so i do know the good side to america in many ways and the good they have done around the world. they have also done a great deal of harm, a bit much of it maliciously. and yes, i know that will open up all sorts of potential discussions. i've met too many americans who genuinely didn't know why they were not universally loved and really believed that bullying (in some cases) was merely the act of a benevolent parent helping out her children (as in the rest of the world).

i will not recoil from my view that the american actions pertaining to cuba have been utterly shameful, petty, appalling - you name it. if individuals pushed their politicioans hard enough then perhaps this would have been long resolved. seriously, this current example shows how beyond bizarre it is (however, as for individuals, there is plenty that the aussie govt has done that i would be disgusted to be associated with - and i have not taken to the streets in protest, so i am no better).

i guess it goes back to the old edmund burke quote that all that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.

Correct, I've never been but my wife, brother in law and mother in law have been there collectively close to 200 trips in more than a decade. However, I didn't comment on the right or wrong of the embargo, nor the result it has had on Cuba, only that I have no reason to hang my head in shame over something my govt has done.

I'm smart enough to know that on the geopolitical stage, few have no skin in the game when it comes to malicious acts.

Evil, if you are referring to the embargo as evil, ha! I know more than a few Cubans that would say castro is evil.

FINALLY, I do so enjoy public discourse. Our two countries allow us to have and publicly voice differing views. Could we have this very same public discourse in Cuba?

---

I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=20.631733,-87.070612