Your thoughts on the new Behikes a 2010 LE's?

[laficion]

Well said, Prez. Well said.

I'd love to see how the Montecristo MINI's are doing.

How about a review ?

[cigarros]

I'd love to see how the Montecristo MINI's are doing.

How about a review ?

Who will first? Second Cohiba Club? )) LOL

[Stalebread]

A few weeks ago I was sitting outside at a café when a French guy (as opposed to a tourist) sat beside me and proceed to smoke a cigar. We got to talking. We traded cigars. He gave me a J.L. Piedra Brevas. I smoked it a couple of days later. To me, it was terrible.

We keep seeing each other around the neighborhood. Then just a few days ago we happened to end up smoking at the same time and place again.

I asked him, “What are you smoking today?”

“The same thing,” he told me. “Jose Piedra. It’s all I smoke. They’re delicious. Very elegant.”

I swear I’m not making this up. It just goes to show . . . .

[Yoruba Hacker]

I don't see how anyone could think they are worth it. being at least double the price of just about any regular production cigar, would anyone rather have 1 of these over 2 of anything else?

This comes up again and again, and you can only say "It's a luxury item" but so many times. No luxury item's premium justifies the multiple in price over the common version of whatever the offering is (Johnny Blue vs. Black; Laphroaig 18 vs. 10; Chimay Blue vs. Bud). But we know this.

How could anyone think they're worth it? My answer is look at it the other way. if you've bought and smoked a Cohiba Sublime Extra, you can get pretty close to the same experience for less than half the price. Works for me.

[Fatcigar]

Smithy and I did a video review of the Montecristo Grand Edmundo 2010 LE's yesterday. Will have the review posted tomorrow.

For those that have had a chance to try the new Behike's or 2010 Limited Editions....what are your thoughts?

Out of the three 2010 LEs, i would defintiely go for the Partagas Especial D, not only because it has great tastes & aroma plus its potential to be another D1 or D2 after some aging! Furthermore, the price point is the most reasonable (<20) out of all the 2010 ELs.

IMHO, regarding the Behikes, i prefer the 52 because the rests are just simply too big in guage size! Big guaged cigars are simply over-killing our taste palate! Furthermore, its price point is in line with that of Cohiba Robustos and Siglo VI (10% difference). Finely-defined tastes with a lot of aging potential! It is not fair to compare the Gran Reservas to the Behikes since it is almost double the price!

Cigar Porns.................................

[android]

I received a box of Partagas from a trusted Canadian source a week ago; the quality control is suspect at best. The leaflet states 'no more than two year', the sticks look like they were wrapped by a 3rd-grader, and the wooden sheet smells and looks like pine... Fortunately, some of the best sticks I've had in terms of flavour were ugly as sin. I'll update after I light one up.

That's why we buy from the Czar!

[brutusthebuckeye]

One box of EL's a year for me...i have the Partys comin from Czar soon!!

As for the BHK i will just wait till Pres puts one up on Poker night and dismantle everyone at the table...U Will Lose!!!!!!!

[bassman]

Let me make a wine analogy for these expensive Cohibas. A bottle of 2007 Mouton Rothchild (just an average vintage) will cost you $300. A bottle of 2007 Clos les Lunelles less than $30. Is the Mouton 10 times tastier than the Clos? I doubt it. You're paying for the label, or the cigar band. But as Prez said, some people only smoke Cohibas, some people only drink Mouton. I would not buy either, but I would also never tell someone else how to spend their money. If YOU get pleasure from it, it's YOUR money to spend as YOU see fit.

[PADDYWHACK121272]

Just finished the Trinidad LE, started fairly non descript but developed decent complexity and a fair amount of strength in the second half. Still way too young to be smoked IMHO but shows promise. Tiny little thing, 40 min smoke, beautifully made, Ken will hate them...

[khomeinist]

Let me make a wine analogy for these expensive Cohibas. A bottle of 2007 Mouton Rothchild (just an average vintage) will cost you $300. A bottle of 2007 Clos les Lunelles less than $30. Is the Mouton 10 times tastier than the Clos? I doubt it. You're paying for the label, or the cigar band. But as Prez said, some people only smoke Cohibas, some people only drink Mouton. I would not buy either, but I would also never tell someone else how to spend their money. If YOU get pleasure from it, it's YOUR money to spend as YOU see fit.

I generally agree with this sentiment. However, I believe the wine analogy only goes so far... wine has terroir (a marketer's dream) but for the most part cigar consumers do not know a whole lot about the specific origin of most aspects of Cuban tobacco. As such, wine has an inherent 'limited' component and therefore the pricing and consumer valuation can reflect this. Cuban tobacco is of course finite... but this fact isn't always presented to the consumer (unless we are dealing with an LE, regional release, etc). The concept of scarcity wreaks havoc on the mind of a neurotic consumer. Most producers of 'luxury' items are doubtlessly well-aware of this fact.

I get the idea 'it's your money, spend it as you wish.' Fair enough. The problem is the ongoing discontinuation program. I presume that the average cigar consumer has a somewhat finite budget for cigars. If a large chunk of that budget goes towards to high value-added items like Behike, CGR, etc., it goes without saying that other marcas are going to suffer. Personally I would rather spend my money on regular-release cigars because I don't want all of my favorite cigars to be discontinued (I have already lost several).

So how much of this is due to foolish marketing by Habanos? Why push the limited items so extensively? Shouldn't they sell themselves? Why is there not a more concerted effort to promote fantastic cigars like the Partagas SDC line? It doesn't make much sense. I would love to sit in on a HSA/Imperial meeting.... but on second thought I might just get a splitting headache.

[Yoruba Hacker]

I generally agree with this sentiment. However, I believe the wine analogy only goes so far... wine has terroir (a marketer's dream) but for the most part cigar consumers do not know a whole lot about the specific origin of most aspects of Cuban tobacco. As such, wine has an inherent 'limited' component and therefore the pricing and consumer valuation can reflect this. Cuban tobacco is of course finite... but this fact isn't always presented to the consumer (unless we are dealing with an LE, regional release, etc). The concept of scarcity wreaks havoc on the mind of a neurotic consumer. Most producers of 'luxury' items are doubtlessly well-aware of this fact.

I get the idea 'it's your money, spend it as you wish.' Fair enough. The problem is the ongoing discontinuation program. I presume that the average cigar consumer has a somewhat finite budget for cigars. If a large chunk of that budget goes towards to high value-added items like Behike, CGR, etc., it goes without saying that other marcas are going to suffer. Personally I would rather spend my money on regular-release cigars because I don't want all of my favorite cigars to be discontinued (I have already lost several).

So how much of this is due to foolish marketing by Habanos? Why push the limited items so extensively? Shouldn't they sell themselves? Why is there not a more concerted effort to promote fantastic cigars like the Partagas SDC line? It doesn't make much sense. I would love to sit in on a HSA/Imperial meeting.... but on second thought I might just get a splitting headache.

Sounds like someone is making you buy the expensive stuff. They're not. Sounds like the discontinuation program is something new of late. It's not. Is Habanos spending more marketing dollars on the more expensive stuff than they do with other new releases? I would think they're not, but I don't know.

I don't think the world's changed that much outside of the fact they are making more super-expensive stuff. But the regular stuff used to be a lot more expensive, so....

If you like the regular production stuff, then great, cause the pricing has never been better, relatively speaking. Load up the truck. You should be delighted. At the end of the day, how much of the enormous range of currently available regular production stuff do you smoke anyways? Wander about that forest and forget the expensive stuff.

[khomeinist]

Sounds like someone is making you buy the expensive stuff. They're not. Sounds like the discontinuation program is something new of late. It's not. Is Habanos spending more marketing dollars on the more expensive stuff than they do with other new releases? I would think they're not, but I don't know.

I don't think the world's changed that much outside of the fact they are making more super-expensive stuff. But the regular stuff used to be a lot more expensive, so....

If you like the regular production stuff, then great, cause the pricing has never been better, relatively speaking. Load up the truck. You should be delighted. At the end of the day, how much of the enormous range of currently available regular production stuff do you smoke anyways? Wander about that forest and forget the expensive stuff.

Haha. Great response! Particularly that bit about wandering about in the forest.... I wish I had the time. I also wish Illinois actually had a forest...but that is another issue.

I didn't mean to imply that the discontinuation program was new.... but certainly it has accelerated.

Making me buy expensive items? I think not. I buy LEs from time to time and am reserving judgement on the Behikes. I was just making the point that HSA/Imperial pushing these items has obvious effects on the overall cigar marketplace. I attempted to link this to the accelerating discontinuation program.

I also do not know how much is spent on HSA/Imperial marketing. I suspect that very little creative promotion was used to resuscitate the flagging vitolas. I also think that marketing/advertising needs to be an ongoing concern. New consumers are entering the marketplace all the time. I frequently give people La Gloria Cubanas .... at first some find the shapes 'goofy' and not in line with current wide gauge offerings. After sampling...... they typically want more and start criticizing the wide-gauge hegemony (do I score points for needless jargon??).

Anyway. I am not 'anti.' I just want to point out the implications of ones consumer decisions. Buy as you like.

[El Presidente]

I also do not know how much is spent on HSA/Imperial marketing. I suspect that very little creative promotion was used to resuscitate the flagging vitolas.

Marketing expenditure is getting very difficult for HSA given advertising bans in much of Europe, Asia and the Pacific. It will only get more difficult.

Distributors rely on retailers (a diminishing commodity) to push the new product. Retailers need a little sizzle to create some excitement for sales of new product to occur. Sales are generally occurring from existing customers.

The Behike has created sizzle. HSA/Distributors/Retailers happy. customers have flocked to the initial releases even if only to try one. How successful it is long term depends very much on maintaining consistent blend and quality while keeping volumes tight. If they can do this then regardless of price it will find a market.

Not every new release works. There is no doubt HSA is working to a formula it thinks is successful.

Many of us question the single mindedness/narrow approach of this formula. Still, initially at least, they would be over the moon at the reception the Behike has received.

[Colt45]

Let me make a wine analogy for these expensive Cohibas.

I generally agree with this sentiment. However, I believe the wine analogy only goes so far...

My personal take with the wine analogy in this case is that with top producers, you are all but guaranteed of the quality of the product in the bottle. Barring

cork taint, poor handling during transport, or something similar, each bottle should be of consistent quality. At this point in time, can the same be said of

top tier Habanos?

Many of us question the single mindedness/narrow approach of this formula. Still, initially at least, they would be over the moon at the reception the Behike has received.

You know Rob, the more I think about it, I've personally nothing against Habanos creating these "top tier" products. If they can parlay the excitement and increased

interest into something positive for the complete line up, then maybe it can work to the benefit of all. But as mentioned above, consistent quality is, in my eyes,

paramount if they are to succeed.