Post-embargo cigars in the US

[jacksfull]

New to FoH here, so please excuse if this topic has been done to death already. But...

There's a lot of conjecture floating around that the US embargo on Cuban imports will be lifted in the foreseeable future. I've also heard many folks speculate that trademark issues would prevent CC's from showing up in the US for a long time after they become, technically, legal.

What's your take on this?

Here's mine:

Altadis now owns 50% of Habanos S.A. - Altadis U.S.A. markets NC versions of several currently active Cuban brands (and a few defunct ones) including:

H. Upmann

Juan Lopez

Montecristo

Por Larranaga

Quintero

Romeo y Julieta

Saint Luis Rey

Trinidad

It seems pretty apparent that these will be the first CC's to (legally) reach US shores in a post-embargo market. Altadis won't necessarily need to go through TM wars in the US courts on their own brands, though I suppose there could be some strenuous internal haggling with Cubatabaco. The bigger question for Altadis U.S.A. may be what to do with NC production of those brands. They could try to market parallel brands... Montecristo Habanos, Montecristo Dominica, etc... or they could channel those NC's to alternate brands (such as Montecruz for their current line of NC Montecristos... or some such thing).

General Cigar owns a significant number of other Cuban TM's for the US, including:

Bolivar

Cohiba

Hoyo de Monterrey

La Gloria Cubana

Partagas

Punch

Rafael Gonzalez

Sancho Panza

If Altadis and General play ball, they pretty much cover the majority of CC's right there.

I'm not an industry insider, so I don't really know all the connections, but it seems these giants may have a handle on US TM's for other CC brands such as El Rey del Mundo and Ramon Allones through subsidiaries or production contracts (not sure how much info I found on these is current). There are also newer CC brands like Vegas Robaina, San Cristobal and Vegueros that do not seem to have NC counterparts (though I did buy some Dominican "Vegueros" about 10 or 12 years ago). Not sure about Cuaba, though there is a "Cuabo" NC brand sold in the US. Others I'm not sure about include Jose L. Piedra and Diplimaticos (though Fuente uses the Diplimaticos name for one of the vitolas in their Montesino line).

What do you guys think?

[SamuraiJack]

There are also newer CC brands like Vegas Robaina, San Cristobal and Vegueros that do not seem to have NC counterparts

http://www.ashtoncigar.com/SanCristobalMain.jsp

There has been lots of discussion on the legalities, but all I know is this: it pisses me off that NC companies try to piggy back off the global success of Habanos brands. Its so blatant and ridiculous, evening copying 'EL' bands and such. It feels like buying knock off Rolex's or fake Gucci glasses at a state fair or something. Feels so cheap. Kudos to NC companies that keep it original.

[jacksfull]

http://www.ashtoncigar.com/SanCristobalMain.jsp

There has been lots of discussion on the legalities, but all I know is this: it pisses me off that NC companies try to piggy back off the global success of Habanos brands. Its so blatant and ridiculous, evening copying 'EL' bands and such. It feels like buying knock off Rolex's or fake Gucci glasses at a state fair or something. Feels so cheap. Kudos to NC companies that keep it original.

So even San Cristobal got nabbed, eh? It's funny that, like many others, the NC bears no relation to the CC. By that I mean, the NC San Cristobal is advertised as a full bodied smoke while the CC is supposedly in the light-to-medium range (never had either myself).

I understand the use of Cuban brands here in the US for NC's, though I don't particularly like it either. It is a result of US trademark laws that require one to be actively marketing a brand here in order to trademark and register. Clearly there is a benefit to built-in brand recognition, but I can also see something like Ashton's San Cristobal being a play at a piece of the action when the embargo is lifted.

Personally, I generally avoid buying copy-cat NC brands. There are a couple of exceptions, though. I recently bought a box of TTT Trinidad Habana Reserve No. 5's. Those little suckers (4.5" x 44) provide quite a jolt in what was supposed to be a quick 20-minute smoke (turns out they're so densely packed that they often go closer to an hour... not bad for a demi corona). I also have developed quite a liking for Atadis' Honduran/Nicaraguan Quinteros. They bear absolutely no resemblance to the Tripa Corta CC's of the same name. The NC Quinteros are beautiful long filler cigars with a lovely Corojo wrapper. When properly aged, they actually come pretty close to the flavor profile of a mid-priced full or medium-full bodied CC... and I pick them up pretty regularly on C-Bid for about 2 bucks a stick. When you get into more expensive knock-offs I really have to wonder why you wouldn't just spend your money on the real thing... but US$2 is hard to beat... and let's be honest, they are an improvement over the CC in this case.

[Don Candido]

I think lots of people have opinions on this. I don't know if he is tired of telling his opinion, but Rob has a pretty good idea of what the issues are. Maybe he will give us his Embargo speech... I don't really care how the deals get worked out. The point is, once the embargo goes down, they will get worked out. There is too much money at stake for them not to. We do not know if deals have already been worked out, simply waiting for the Embargo to go away. Either way, I think the distribution and trademark issues will be worked out very quickly.

I am guessing when the Embargo drops, Cuban cigars will become hard to find, followed by quality issues as they try to meet demand. If you already own smokes, this may be a non-issue.

I am not holding my breath for anyone to eliminate the embargo anytime soon, but you never know.

[demiurgic]

I am not holding my breath for anyone to eliminate the embargo anytime soon, but you never know.

Ditto!

OH-BAM!mmerrr recently signed on another year enforcing the embargo.

[BolivarSmoker]

America's Anchorman and cigar lover, Rush Limbaugh, said this on his radio show a while back.....

[jacksfull]

America's Anchorman and cigar lover, Rush Limbaugh, said this on his radio show a while back.....

Rush touched on one of the points I was trying to make; Altadis owns the Montecristo TM here in US. Look at all the other brands they have trademarked in the US, as well. If CC's will sell in the US, and (to borrow a line from Rush) I can assure you they will, then as soon as the embargo is lifted Altadis is going to import them.

General Cigar's brands are another story. However, it seems to me that there is such profit in it for them, even if Altadis is also profiting (by way of HSA), that I really can't imagine them not figuring a way of working it out. I would guess the issue of protecting the NC's of the same names pales in comparison to the market for CC's, as long as HSA will acknowledge General's TM and allow them to distribute the same brands in CC's Remember, however much they sell here of NC Cohibas, Partagas, or whatever, those cigars are competing with a myriad of similar NC's. The CC brands will only really compete with each other. They are on such a different level that very few of us would be torn between whether we prefer to buy an NC Cohiba or a CC Cohiba.

That said, I have to believe that the vultures in congress will insist on their pound of flesh, making US prices on CC's outrageous. For example, earlier this year they instituted something like a 2400% increase of taxes on RYO (roll your own) tobaccos. So, overseas purchasing of CC's will likely still be advantageous for those aware of that channel of distribution.

[Jesuscookies]

Let me know when the ban is lifted so I can, finally, get my hands on some sweet habanos!

[jacksfull]

Let me know when the ban is lifted so I can, finally, get my hands on some sweet habanos!

Point taken.

Maybe the better question would have been, "How many of you FoH's in the US even want the embargo lifted?" It seems most of you have the present situation with CC's well in hand already (pun definitely intended)... and I even scared myself mentioning what congress would likely do to rape us on the taxes.