Regular...Aged...Vintage.

[Mr. Japan]

I've been wondering lately as on the net and in some shops I visit I find some box/cbn 2001/2002 and 2003 and they advertise them as Vintage stock

In my opinion and in my little understanding after smoking some cigars from different years is as follows:

Fresh - Current year or last two years

Regular - 4 to 8 years old

Aged - 8-10 to 18-20 years old

Vintage > over 20 years old

How would you make such divisions between the cigars you keep in your humidor?

[Claudius]

» I've been wondering lately as on the net and in some shops I visit I find

» some box/cbn 2001/2002 and 2003 and they advertise them as Vintage stock

»

» In my opinion and in my little understanding after smoking some cigars

» from different years is as follows:

»

» Fresh - Current year or last two years

» Regular - 4 to 8 years old

» Aged - 8-10 to 18-20 years old

» Vintage > over 20 years old

»

» How would you make such divisions between the cigars you keep in your

» humidor?

Hi Gino

I would say

Fresh under 2 years

Regular 2 to 5 years

Aged from 5 to 15 years

Vintage from 15 years

[Colt45]

I consider fresh current year. The rest are, for me, harder to define. I guess I would consider "regular"

to be up to two years, but if a cigar is tasting great after a year or so, I might consider it properly aged.

Though I understand the concept, for me aged and vintage would probably be interchangeable.

Aged would depend on the cigar. If it smoked great and showed all it ever would after two years,

I'd call it properly aged. If a cigar took ten years to mature, I'd call it aged at ten years.

For me there's just too much gray area and overlap to give a real definition.

And for what it's worth, I believe PCC's Vintage Program uses cigars that are at least two years old.

[Claudius]

» And for what it's worth, I believe PCC's Vintage Program uses cigars that

» are at least two years old.

They use this terminology in conjunction with (and probably as a tentative justification for) the increased prices, but let's face it, it's inappropriate at this sort of "age".

FWIW and IIRC the Gotham Cigar Museum in NYC calls "aged" anything post-embargo from last century and "vintage" anything pre-embargo! That's 48 years, so there lol.

[Colt45]

» » And for what it's worth, I believe PCC's Vintage Program uses cigars

» that

» » are at least two years old.

»

» They use this terminology in conjunction with (and probably as a tentative

» justification for) the increased prices, but let's face it, it's

» inappropriate at this sort of "age".

I can't argue with you here - though I believe two years is the minimum, I have bought a box that was over five years old.

At the very least you can be assured of provenance.

[yossie]

IMHO, depends on the flavors. not just the number of age.

[El Presidente]

The term "Vintage" is used by many (including PCC) as a marketing term.

I think the correct term for 5 year old cigars is "Aged".

[Ken Gargett]

» The term "Vintage" is used by many (including PCC) as a marketing term.

»

» I think the correct term for 5 year old cigars is "Aged".

when you say 'correct term', who decides this? is it just marketing also or does some authority actually specifiy these things?

[El Presidente]

» » The term "Vintage" is used by many (including PCC) as a marketing term.

» »

» » I think the correct term for 5 year old cigars is "Aged".

»

» when you say 'correct term', who decides this? is it just marketing also

» or does some authority actually specifiy these things?

I decide ;-)

[smokum]

» I decide ;-)

:-D :-D It's good to be King !!!

[Mr. Japan]

» » I decide ;-)

»

» :-D :-D It's good to be King !!!

Rob if you decide that 5 years old is "aged" how would you calla 10 years old box and a 15 years old box.

I don't want mention 20.......

[Claudius]

» » » I decide ;-)

» »

» » :-D :-D It's good to be King !!!

»

» Rob if you decide that 5 years old is "aged" how would you calla 10 years

» old box and a 15 years old box.

"well-aged"?

» I don't want mention 20.......

vintage? :-)

[Ken Gargett]

» » » The term "Vintage" is used by many (including PCC) as a marketing term.

»

» » »

» » » I think the correct term for 5 year old cigars is "Aged".

» »

» » when you say 'correct term', who decides this? is it just marketing

» also

» » or does some authority actually specifiy these things?

»

» I decide ;-)

this is good to know. i can now give those terms all the due deference i give to all your rulings.

[El Presidente]

» Rob if you decide that 5 years old is "aged" how would you calla 10 years

» old box and a 15 years old box.

»

Expensive :-)

[El Presidente]

»

» this is good to know. i can now give those terms all the due deference i

» give to all your rulings.

Thanks Ken. In order to redeem myself in your eyes (your opinion means alot to me :cool: ) let me make the following observations on the Aged/Vintage market.

1. The only aged (5-10) or vintage stock one should really purchase is that which has been set aside at the time the vendor received the stock for long term ageing. There really are few vendors in the world who do this as it takes significant financial resources to do so.

2. The exception to rule one is where you purchase from a trusted connoisseur who has a reputation for knowing what he is doing. Like in all games, buy the vendor not the product.

3. Stock with age from run of the mill vendors is an absolute crapshoot. At best you have found an unpopular vitola which has been properly stored in his humidor. Likely you have found a defective box of cigars which the vendors private clients (walk ins) have passed on time and time again. At worst you have a box of youngish cigars in an old box from which the vendor has sold singles.

4. Regardless of where you purchase aged or vintage cigars ask for the box's history. When did it come into possession of the vendor and from whom. How have they been stored. What do they look like....wrapper, construction plus ....would the vendor purchase this box for himself (if vendor is a store) or if a connoisseur privateer why is the box being sold.

[Mr. Japan]

Thank you for these info I apprecciate.

One more question, have you ever smoked (of course you have) a 15 years / 20 y / 25y /30Y cigar and wich is your idea of these cigars .

[El Presidente]

» Thank you for these info I apprecciate.

»

» One more question, have you ever smoked (of course you have) a 15 years /

» 20 y / 25y /30Y cigar and wich is your idea of these cigars .

I have had the honour to share and smoke cigars which range in age from 15 years to 85 years of age.

Some are exceptional (the latest being a Davidoff No 1 from 1986 shared with Guillaume in Beijing).

In answer to your question I would rate 15% to be exceptional, 30% to be good to very good and the balance poor to average.

Only the exceptional are worth the money.

In order to purchase this experience there is no substitue to knowing the vendor, the storage and the history of how the cigars have been stored.

We are quite often asked to purchase vintage cigars from private collectors and the family of private collectors who may have passed on. To this day I have never purchased them. The day may come when I do but to this point in time I have never been satisfied that I have a true chronological picture from point of purchase to history of storage.

When you retail $250-$500-$1000 cigars you have some responsibility to the purchaser. "Caveat Emptor" doesn't cut it.