Humidity Control

[cigarnv]

As for florist foam (and its "like" products) it is the defacto standard for cigar humidity control given it is probably contained in 98% of humidors sold. It does in fact do a good job of maintaining humidity at 68-70% when used with poly glychol (spg?) in a 50% solution upon start up. While over time (years) the pores do clog, a $2 brick provides a lifetime supply for most smokers. Also a point that is overlooked is that poly glychol helps inhibit mold, certainly a benefit in a high humidity environment.

All silica gel beads (generic and branded products) clog and discolor over time as well as break up. It is important to note that in using any silica gel based product that the gel will absorb and hold acetic acid which off gasses from wood products. Acetic acid can discolor beads as well as at times create a funky aroma. If your beads discolor this may be the reason why.

Given that the major problem with most humidors is leakage, foam provdes the largest specific moisture reserve available other than water itself. In effect a leaky humidor using foam can go an estimated 8-10 longer without being replenished than one using silica gel based products. On another note if your humidity is very high beads tend not to work well as they have a limited capacity to absorb moisture when conditioned to 65%+. In this case use baked beads which are moisture free.

As with most things in life, one product does not solve all problems. If you need lots of humidity silica gel based products are a poor choice. If you need to remove a lot of humidity florist foam is not the best solution nor is conditioned silica gel products.

As for conditioning silica gel the process is quite simple..

1) Place your silica gel (kitty litter) in a plastic container that seals well. Large shallow containers work best as it exposes more beads.

2) Place a dish ,with a very wet sponge on it,on top of the gel so the wet sponge does not touch the gel. Place your hygrometer in the container so you can see the humidity. Seal the container.

3) Over a few days the humidity will rise as the silica gel absorbs moisture. When it gets to your desired "set point" remove the sponge, stir the beads and reseal. Let the beads rest for a day or two to insure the humidity is where you want it. If it is low toss the sponge back in, If high crack the lid to leave some dry air in.

4) Use the beads. As your beads discolor or crack just toss them out.

I condition 5 pounds at a time. You can speed up the conditioning by misting the beads with water. This will crack some but they fall to the bottom. Cracked beads work just as well, they are just a bit messy.

[n2advnture]

» As for florist foam (and its "like" products) it is the defacto standard

» for cigar humidity control given it is probably contained in 98% of

» humidors sold.

They are in 98% of humidors because it costs them .02 to say it comes with a humidifier. I don't know anyone who actually uses them AND maintains a precise level of RH for an extended period of time.

» All silica gel beads (generic and branded products) clog and discolor over

» time as well as break up. ...

They will only clog if anything but distilled water is used. They break up only if over hydrated which does not effect their performance.

» Given that the major problem with most humidors is leakage, foam provdes

» the largest specific moisture reserve available other than water itself.

» In effect a leaky humidor using foam can go an estimated 8-10 longer

» without being replenished than one using silica gel based products.

8-10x longer? How would one estimate that?

» On another note if your humidity is very high beads tend not to work well as

» they have a limited capacity to absorb moisture when conditioned to 65%+.

» In this case use baked beads which are moisture free.

As with any product, performance will definitely vary by conditions. But I have never had a problem in the years of using the media with them not precisely regulating RH.

I assume you are talking in the 80% RH range.

» As with most things in life, one product does not solve all problems.

True, find something you like and stick to it.

Just out of curiosity, for someone who obviously doesn't like the silica media, why would you use the kitty litter for years?

Great discussions Reid!

~M

[cigarnv]

Mark, I agree great discussion in a good forum. I don't dislike silica gel... but as Eastwood said "you gotta know the limitations":-)

First off I use kitty litter in cooladors which are full and air tight. Also to remove excess humidity I use oven dried gel for cigars and gun safes. Litter works well where I am trying to maintain a 61-62%RH target in an air tight environment..ie coolador with little demand for moisture or drying. I have also used litter with foam acting as a reserve moisture device in semi-sealed humi's.

Secondly, the 8-10x number is quite easy to determine. Take equal volumes of dry media and weigh them... foam and beads. Saturate both with water to the level which they will accept, then weigh both medias. The net weight of the water each was able to retain (reserve moisture retained by volume) should be 8-10 times greater for the foam. A process similiar to this is used to determine volume of gel needed in art applications. The media can only give off what it has in reserve, which is far less with gel.

I have no issue with silica gel in the appropriate environment, and in fact use gel. In situations where the demand for moisture or lack of moisture is high, gel is a poor media for a regulating material. I store most cigars at 61-62%RH, so high to me is not 80%, it is 65%. In the case of gel it is not the degree to which the humidity is high, it is the amount of excess humidity that has to be continually absorbed. With oven dry gel the absorbtion capacity is much higher than with 65% gel.

I find the most effective control device where humidity is typically added is the Oasis or the Set and Forget electronic units. The Oasis units do use foam as the moisture retention media.

In regards to foam (and foam like) humidifers in humidors.. I agree fully they are inexpensive, but the bottom line is they typically work just fine in most applications. I suspect more cigars are humidified by smokers using foam than all other devices combined. It is just us anal fools who mess with this other stuff:-)

On a final note all gel cracks when exposed to water to some degree. Both generic and branded gel both use water to replenish and as such do crack. At some point you have to deal with the mess, dust, etc. and neither lasts forever. As for clogging it is not the water but dust dirt and off gassing materials that clog beads and discolor them. One of the benefits of litter being so cost effective is I just toss it every year or so and use new litter.

As I have said earlier I am not an expert on any of this stuff, just a cigar guy with an interest in a variety of things.

Now that we have kicked this around for a while

, can you by chance tell me what you think differentiates the branded gel from the generic kitty litter specifically?

Thanks Mark !!

[Colt45]

There is some very good info here. For me , the bottom line would be true two

way humidity control, without a lot of hassle and / or expense. The closest I've

come so far has been an airtight rubbermade / tupperware container using 65%

humidipak boveda packets. It's my most stable container year 'round, and

requires almost no mainteneance.

My other humidors are more susceptible to climate changes, but are of high

enough quality that the changes are slow and gradual, and easy enough to

regulate.

The grail for me would be a system that constantly adds or removes humidity

as necessary, without the use of media such as beads, salts, foams, etc.

I'm sure it exists, but I'd like to see it on a small scale.

[Freefallguy]

I'd not heard about the cat liter, but must second all those who give kudos to the Heartfelt beads. Following the advice of a previous post from Mark, I’ve used them in my coolidor for the past several months and it has held rock solid at 65%! Thanks Mark.

[SuperT]

I use kitty litter beads in my "over flow coolerdor" and they have it pegged in the mid 60s. I use this for overflow and long term storage.

I use an Oasis in my Aristocrat Mini, retro-fit with super absorbent polymers and it is pegged at 64%. I smoke from this humidor.

Both are great ways to go IMO and will save many a headache.

-T

[korryp]

Use Google and searcg for: watersorb

Cheap and works great. Been using it for 4+ years.

[cigarnv]

Watersorb is a good product also as it can hold a great deal of water in reserve, significantly more than beads. I know several folks who use this in their Oasis. Others just place it in a jar / container with a punctured lid. If you mix a little PG in with the water when using the Watersorb it will help retard the mold.

Another quick trick is to mix water and PG 50/50 and use this to hydrate your Watersorb. Only use enough water to hydrate the watersorb to about 75% of capacity.Take some of the hydrated gel that is created and place it in a small Tyvek envelope. Seal the envelope well by folding over the opened edge end several times. Tyvek has pores that are too small to let water out but large enough to let water vapor pass both ways. In effect you have a 68-70% Humidipak.

FYI... Watersorb was originally developed for use in disposible diapers to soak up the moisture and contain it.....

[wasch_24]

To me, it doesn't matter if it is free...I am NOT going to rely on kitty litter to maintain the environment of a muli-thousand dollar investment.

Edited for typos.

[wasch_24]

» To me, it doesn't matter if it is free...I am NOT going to rely on kitty

» litter to maintain the environment of a muli-thousand dollar investment.

»

»

» Edited for typos.

I have changed my mind.

[Well Armed]

» To me, it doesn't matter if it is free...I am NOT going to rely on kitty

» litter to maintain the environment of a muli-thousand dollar investment.

TW- this don't sit well with me either!

FWIW even if I had a huge cigarmoire with active RH control I would still put some beads in there to dehumidify if need be.

[wasch_24]

» » To me, it doesn't matter if it is free...I am NOT going to rely on kitty

» » litter to maintain the environment of a muli-thousand dollar

» investment.

»

» TW- this don't sit well with me either!

»

» FWIW even if I had a huge cigarmoire with active RH control I would still

» put some beads in there to dehumidify if need be.

Actually, I have changed my stance on this.

I now have a half pound or so in my Aristocrat Mini to help absorb the increase in RH when I open it.

The ambient humidity is pretty high now.

[cf2112]

I use kitty litter to dehumidify my Aristocrat and coolers in the humid mnths. super absorbant polymers in my Set N forget & Cigar Oasis this has worked flawlessly for years. I have used beads and kl to humidify my stash with no difference in performance. IMHO kl removes humidity 10x better than beads.

Use kitty litter if you feel comfortable with it, beads if you don't. Nobody is going to kick you out of the he-man woman haters club either way.:-D

[CWS]

Whoa. Dejavu. I thought I just read this whole thread elsewhere. Got to lay off the BBF's at lunch. ;-)

[wasch_24]

» Whoa. Dejavu. I thought I just read this whole thread elsewhere. Got to

» lay off the BBF's at lunch. ;-)

This one is older though Chuck.