Cubans - which brand gets which leaf

[Gubbins]

I’ve tried to find the answer to this online a few times with no real success. I've read things in the past like ‘Cohiba gets the best wrappers etc’ which would suggest the leaf is coming from a selection of different farms. However, I always assumed that a brands flavour profile not only came from the blend, but also from a specific farm(s) and thus got that particular make-up of soil / microclimate baked in, creating a different DNA to other brands.

I understand the best leaf for the top brands is coming from the Vuelta Abajo region. But just how specific?  Do brands have their own exclusive farms, or is there an Element of sharing? For example, are there ever cases where 2 or 3 brands will take leaf from the same farms? Do brands have a selection of exclusive farms that they will take leaf from, or just one, two?

I hope my question is clear. Forgive my ignorance, and I look forward to hearing from those who know more than I do.

Cheers

[El Presidente]

In the main, think NV Champagne. 

The aim is to blend cigars that remain consistent to the cigar (marque/vitola) flavour profile. The blend will change subject to the tobacco characteristics at hand. Different years/crops, differing flavours....adjustments to blend are made in order to attain flavour consistency. Farm specific, no. Region specific, to a point. Maestra line is such a case in point (San Luis). 

However when "push comes to shove", quota trumps all. 

 

[Gubbins]

Thanks for the reply, I was hoping you would chip in.

I must say that I'm quite surprised by that answer. Probably because I am under appreciating the complexities in the blending process. Following a factory tour in Cuba, I always assumed that a blend for a brand specific vitola was simply a case of taking (excuse the poor example) x percent volado, y percent seco, z percent Ligero. And in general the specific amount wasn’t scientific or weighed out but more akin to rough estimates (half a leaf of this, a full leaf of that) and that the region / farm it came from would create much of the DNA/ flavour profile difference between two mirrored vitolas of differing brands, for example a Juan Lopez 2 vs a RASS.

You would expect that if many brands are taking leaf from a selection of farms, which other brands are also harvesting from, that ultimately most brands would end up tasting very similar indeed, seeing as that there are only 3 or 4 types of leaf on a tobacco plant that can be used in a blend. However this is not really the case in reality.

After all, how many different blends can there actually be? There are only 3 or 4 different leaves, yet there are hundreds* of different vitolas in the Habanos line up. You would expect that all robustos tasted practically the same, all petite coronas the same etc.

I am assuming then, that if it is not the tobaccos region/farm providing the DNA of a brand/vitola, then the blending process must be a lot more scientific and complex than I expected.

Are they also using different species of tobacco across the island, to help vary the flavours across the blends? Or do blends also gain distinction from using seco leaves from Vuelta Abajo vs Partido, for example.

An interesting rabbit hole for me, that has veered off in a different direction that what I expected.

[Gubbins]

Love or loathe Kirby, this interview with Partagas master blender Arnaldo Vichot, was an interesting watch and answered and expanded on the questions and answers posed in this thread. Some interesting insight into what thoughts goes into blending some of the best Cuban cigars.

[ha_banos]

21 hours ago, Gubbins said:

Love or loathe Kirby, this interview with Partagas master blender Arnaldo Vichot, was an interesting watch and answered and expanded on the questions and answers posed in this thread. Some interesting insight into what thoughts goes into blending some of the best Cuban cigars.

Funnily enough I referenced this video too just yesterday (Def. loathe). I can find very little info online about Arnaldo. I do have a Magnificos clone. The 2007 Magnificos itself was a clone of the PL Magnum (there's an old review from Ryan here somewhere). Neither of which I've tried to be able to tell! 😬

I believe the story goes Vichot didn't smoke himself so reproduced the Magnificos from the Magnums from aroma alone! (FC?)

Different tobacco strains, decades, fertiliser, weather. I've assumed it's mostly in the blending. But would be good to know if there's any reliance on a base from a specific region to start from.

I do find Cuban cigars on the whole to be very similar. Yes more harsh/smooth, sweetness level, richness, creaminess/oily, salty, etc. occasional cigars might give minty, I've had a fig like aroma, grassy. But more in the aroma than taste for me. And that twang.

The selection of leaves from sniffing to tasting individual leaves to recreate something. From memory or notes year after year. I find it more fascinating than wine/whisky blending because I imagine it's more aroma than taste/feel imparted from smoke and the leaves on the lips.

I don't get most of the flavour wheel people talk about. I think Hamlet says similar.

The blind tasting coming up will be amusing again ☺️ Fortunately I missed it. So no egg on my face 🤣

[zeedubbya]

On 1/15/2025 at 6:55 PM, Gubbins said:

blending process must be a lot more scientific and complex than I expected.

I don’t know your history with Cuban cigars, but think you’ve fallen into a trap of believing the “forbidden fruit fallacy”.  Nothing in Cuba is scientific and complex, quite the opposite. Which is kind of what makes us all as crazy as we are for these cigars. It’s been discussed at length here and elsewhere the inconsistency—box to box and within a box even. We know this is mainly due to two MAJOR factors. The crop from year to year, and color sorting after the cigars are rolled. I have no doubt the blenders try really hard to maintain the taste of the Marca from year to year, but as El Prez mentioned, quota trumps all things.  

The Cohiba Talisman was the cigar which proved this to me beyond a shadow of a doubt. Early Talisman started out being rolled exclusively at El Laguito and in limited numbers. Once Habanos realized the wild success of this cigar they began coming out of other factories in larger quantities. Personally, I liked the Talisman rolled at Partagas more than the Talisman rolled at EL.  They are vastly different cigars to my taste.  

I’ve always wondered why they don’t simply provide the rollers with color matched wrapper leaves, so there’s consistency from cigar to cigar in a box. My guess is it’s a quota thing more than anything else? As others have mentioned, watch the FOH blind tasting to really see this phenomenon on full display. 

[SUP8333]

On 4/6/2025 at 11:13 PM, zeedubbya said:

I don’t know your history with Cuban cigars, but think you’ve fallen into a trap of believing the “forbidden fruit fallacy”.  Nothing in Cuba is scientific and complex, quite the opposite. Which is kind of what makes us all as crazy as we are for these cigars. It’s been discussed at length here and elsewhere the inconsistency—box to box and within a box even. We know this is mainly due to two MAJOR factors. The crop from year to year, and color sorting after the cigars are rolled. I have no doubt the blenders try really hard to maintain the taste of the Marca from year to year, but as El Prez mentioned, quota trumps all things.  

The Cohiba Talisman was the cigar which proved this to me beyond a shadow of a doubt. Early Talisman started out being rolled exclusively at El Laguito and in limited numbers. Once Habanos realized the wild success of this cigar they began coming out of other factories in larger quantities. Personally, I liked the Talisman rolled at Partagas more than the Talisman rolled at EL.  They are vastly different cigars to my taste.  

I’ve always wondered why they don’t simply provide the rollers with color matched wrapper leaves, so there’s consistency from cigar to cigar in a box. My guess is it’s a quota thing more than anything else? As others have mentioned, watch the FOH blind tasting to really see this phenomenon on full display. 

They actually have a national research institute of tobacco... 😅

[Puros Y Vino]

James Suckling's documentary tackles this question well. IIRC, there are about a dozen master blenders that inspect the bales at various warehouses and will then flag a series of leaf for particular cigars. Three bales of binder, filler & wrapper meet some basic criteria, become Monte 2's. Another RASS, etc. And it somewhat explains why some cigars aren't consistently rolled and can't be found on the shelves anywhere. Not enough, extra big silky wrappers from this years harvest? No Monte A! Not enough of the filler needed for a Sir Winnie? Boom. No Sir Winnies. Etc, etc. It's a bit hard to fathom that so much of each marca's flavour profile, rests in so few heads. But, it does add to the romance and mystique of the Cuban cigar industry.