Secondary Cigar Market Boom

[Partyshrts]

For those not familiar, the United States has been going through a Bourbon Boom for the last 15 years whereby bottles such as Pappy Van Winkle are purchased by individuals for $200 and turned around and flipped for $2,000 plus because of scarcity. I'm sure this is the case in Europe with the Single Malt Scotch market as well. Now that Cuban cigars are becoming scarce do you guys foresee an active secondary flipping market? Personally I think this will be the case for top tier Marcas like Cohiba and Trinidad but how about regular production brands? Are we looking at a future where if a novice wants to try a Cuban cigar like a Por Larranga Petite Corona they will need to pay $20 a stick to a flipper? 

[ha_banos]

Yes. I think so.

[Arabian]

I slightly disagree, its much better now than during the Covid days, shops at least in my region (GCC) are fairly well stocked (except duty free), Yes a few marcas/vitolas are scarce but I'm noticing the shops are receiving shipments much more frequently than before. This is from last March, and smaller 2 or 3 shipments came afterwards as well. Cohiba and Trini stays the longer on the shelves. I think what's happening is shifting towards different markets/regions.

[Chitmo]

PLPC is more that $20 a stick now in Commonwealth countries I’d wager, I know it is here in Canada. 

[ha_banos]

45 minutes ago, Chitmo said:

PLPC is more that $20 a stick now in Commonwealth countries I’d wager, I know it is here in Canada. 

Yup.

[Partyshrts]

14 hours ago, Chitmo said:

PLPC is more that $20 a stick now in Commonwealth countries I’d wager, I know it is here in Canada. 

Ouch, Canada gets hosed on all luxury goods. Might as well buy all your cigars online for half price.

14 hours ago, Arabian said:

I slightly disagree, its much better now than during the Covid days, shops at least in my region (GCC) are fairly well stocked (except duty free), Yes a few marcas/vitolas are scarce but I'm noticing the shops are receiving shipments much more frequently than before. This is from last March, and smaller 2 or 3 shipments came afterwards as well. Cohiba and Trini stays the longer on the shelves. I think what's happening is shifting towards different markets/regions.

It's becoming feast or famine globally. Good time to be a Cigar smoker in the Middle East and Asia, not so much for the rest of the Globe. 

[Chitmo]

21 minutes ago, Partyshrts said:

Ouch, Canada gets hosed on all luxury goods. Might as well buy all your cigars online for half price.

A buddy of mine bought a P2 at a local B&M a few weeks ago, $85/stick! 😬 

[Partyshrts]

I'm seriously thinking of selling an aged box of 2007 Partagas Shorts on Bond Roberts to cover some of the $3,000 I've spent on 24 the last month.

[El Presidente]

6 minutes ago, Partyshrts said:

I'm seriously thinking of selling an aged box of 2007 Partagas Shorts on Bond Roberts to cover some of the $3,000 I've spent on 24 the last month.

.....I think it is a great idea .......

[Partyshrts]

11 hours ago, El Presidente said:

.....I think it is a great idea .......

LOL...When I went to restock my Habano supply a couple of months ago and saw the current prices I just about fainted. I thought I was going to be rich. Until I realized I smoked most of my Trinis, Cohibas, etc during Covid. Luckily I loaded up on Party Shorts before Covid though. My comic book collection unfortunately isn't worth millions either.

[ha_banos]

24 minutes ago, Partyshrts said:

LOL....When I went to restock my Habano supply a couple of months ago and saw the current prices I just about fainted. I thought I was going to be rich. Until I realized I smoked most of my Trinis, Cohibas, etc during Covid. Luckily I loaded up on Party Shorts before Covid though. My comic book collection unfortunately isn't worth millions either.

Well listen. I know this fabulous Fabrica factory that is putting out some mighty fine stogies. Got a secret discount code too if you're interested 😉😉

[BlueWS]

The Pappy whiskey analogy isn't a great one for Cigars if you look at the whole story. Pappy Van Winkle was being resold for years, even on eBay. Anyone with a 40yr bottle could flip it for 3x as a private sale. That's not the real crime. The real crime was an inside job at the Weller/Buffalo Trace distillery. There's an entertaining mocumentary about it. For those who don't know the story, the captain of a local softball team paid some of his teammates (who worked at various areas of the distillery) to steal. First it was 40 year old bottles that he would flip to lawyers, bankers, and doctors at poker parties for 3x. Then word got out and the price tripled. The distillery allowed employees to take a bottle home, but these guys were sneaking out the aged stuff. First it was one guy and one bottle a day. Then a couple guys with a bottle each. Then it was cases. The the distillery caught on and locked up the premium bottles behind a cage with 24 hour surveillance. Then this crew needed to steal way more product and it didn't matter what age it was, because the demand and the cash pay-outs were so high. Then one of the local poker fat cats offered big money for a cask party. Full casks of first aged then regular production Whiskey were off loaded one at a time onto a small pickup truck at night. Stored under blue tarps on this guys property. The sales were local and the crime was at the source, not at the distributor. They weren't faking premium product sold at a discount to unsuspecting buyers. They were stealing premium product for wealthy educated buyers who couldn't access it otherwise. Then they were stealing both premium and regular production product and blending it to stretch out their sales. Then they were stealing whatever they could to meet demand.

[Partyshrts]

7 hours ago, BlueWS said:

The Pappy whiskey analogy isn't a great one for Cigars if you look at the whole story. Pappy Van Winkle was being resold for years, even on eBay. Anyone with a 40yr bottle could flip it for 3x as a private sale. That's not the real crime. The real crime was an inside job at the Weller/Buffalo Trace distillery. There's an entertaining mocumentary about it. For those who don't know the story, the captain of a local softball team paid some of his teammates (who worked at various areas of the distillery) to steal. First it was 40 year old bottles that he would flip to lawyers, bankers, and doctors at poker parties for 3x. Then word got out and the price tripled. The distillery allowed employees to take a bottle home, but these guys were sneaking out the aged stuff. First it was one guy and one bottle a day. Then a couple guys with a bottle each. Then it was cases. The the distillery caught on and locked up the premium bottles behind a cage with 24 hour surveillance. Then this crew needed to steal way more product and it didn't matter what age it was, because the demand and the cash pay-outs were so high. Then one of the local poker fat cats offered big money for a cask party. Full casks of first aged then regular production Whiskey were off loaded one at a time onto a small pickup truck at night. Stored under blue tarps on this guys property. The sales were local and the crime was at the source, not at the distributor. They weren't faking premium product sold at a discount to unsuspecting buyers. They were stealing premium product for wealthy educated buyers who couldn't access it otherwise. Then they were stealing both premium and regular production product and blending it to stretch out their sales. Then they were stealing whatever they could to meet demand.

I'd like to watch that. Where did you find it?

[Andy04]

There are a lot of fantastic bourbons for USD $40-60 per bottle. There are some brilliant NC cigars for less than $8 per stick.

The current mentality makes those that like to partake find alternative options, of which there are plenty.

[ha_banos]

42 minutes ago, Andy04 said:

There are a lot of fantastic bourbons for USD $40-60 per bottle. There are some brilliant NC cigars for less than $8 per stick.

The current mentality makes those that like to partake find alternative options, of which there are plenty.

I wonder if the term NC as opposed to say NW has a negative connotation. It creates the division Habanos must love. Even NW is divisive! Can we just say Honduran (for puros ofc) given there are many producers for example? Is there something Cuban that means we can't say Honduran or Nicaraguan? Maybe this is a separate thread... 

I know Cuba was where this tobacco smoking tubes thing was discovered by the Spaniards. So the origins blah blah.

But this is the new age!

 

[TobaccoRoad]

1 hour ago, Andy04 said:

There are a lot of fantastic bourbons for USD $40-60 per bottle. There are some brilliant NC cigars for less than $8 per stick.

The current mentality makes those that like to partake find alternative options, of which there are plenty.

I think you make an important distinction. Those that "partake" find good product at a fair price and enjoy it. Those that collect and/or flip for profit are in many cases driving the prices up on the rare and hard to find cigars and liquors. I am definitely in the partaker camp. I've got boxes of habanos that are now worth a lot more than I paid for them on the secondary market. I plan to smoke and enjoy every single one of them. 

[BrightonCorgi]

Counterfeiting wine, booze or cigars is quite easy. I'd be hesitant to buy either from non-established channels. 

[Chitmo]

2 hours ago, TobaccoRoad said:

I think you make an important distinction. Those that "partake" find good product at a fair price and enjoy it. Those that collect and/or flip for profit are in many cases driving the prices up on the rare and hard to find cigars and liquors. I am definitely in the partaker camp. I've got boxes of habanos that are now worth a lot more than I paid for them on the secondary market. I plan to smoke and enjoy every single one of them. 

You’re my kinda smoker, I’ve been offered some significant chunks of cash for some of my stash. Sums of money that had me in disbelief. I enjoy smoking, collecting seems pointless to me. Can’t take them with you when you’re dead. 

[Partyshrts]

8 hours ago, Andy04 said:

There are a lot of fantastic bourbons for USD $40-60 per bottle. There are some brilliant NC cigars for less than $8 per stick.

The current mentality makes those that like to partake find alternative options, of which there are plenty.

You are correct. I drink Wild Turkey 101 Bourbon and get surprised looks from those that only drink Blantons, Eagle Rare, etc.. I just smile. Not very long ago I left Blantons on the shelves for $40 and instead picked up bottles of OGD 114 for $15. Status fuels all the Luxury Markets...not common sense.

[Chitmo]

43 minutes ago, Partyshrts said:

You are correct. I drink Wild Turkey 101 Bourbon and get surprised looks from those that only drink Blantons, Eagle Rare, etc.. I just smile. Not very long ago I left Blantons on the shelves for $40 and instead picked up bottles of OGD 114 for $15. Status fuels all the Luxury Markets...not common sense.

As far as I’m concerned Wild Turkey 101 has no competition unless you exit that price bracket. Best deal in bourbon if you ask me. 

[BlueWS]

On 6/5/2024 at 2:31 PM, Partyshrts said:

I'd like to watch that. Where did you find it?