FOHrensics: Ash and Embers

[El Presidente]

 

Le'ts kick off an investigation of the below:

 

From Colt45

Cigar ash as an insulator:

Does a length of cigar ash insulate the ember thereby keeping it and the smoke cooler, or does it insulate the ember like a blanket on a cold day, keeping it hotter and perhaps allowing for more complete combustion.

None of the above?

 

Step 1. 

Let's jointly devise the test. 

Step 2. 

I will call in Smithy and Jeremy. I need OCD overload. 

Step 3. 

We will film it. 

 

So firstly, over to you. How would you design the test. What tools do you think will be needed. 

[MrGlass]

So to be clear, I am in no way qualified to be designing such a test.  That being said, I would do something like this:

1.  Select two cigars from the same box, comparing both the weights and the cold draw to find two cigars as similar as possible.  Repeat this process two more times, given that there will be three of you, ideally with cigars from a different marca that are the same format.
2.  Each person would smoke both cigars simultaneously, alternating draws between each cigar at a designated time period (for example, take a draw every thirty seconds, but swap cigars with each draw so that each cigar is receiving one draw every 60 seconds).  One cigar is left to ash naturally, while the other has the ash removed regularly to leave the ember exposed.
3.  Use a non-contact thermometer to record the temperature of each cigar at a specific distance below the lowest burn point of the wrapper at regular intervals.  Whenever the ash drops on the cigar that is ashing naturally, you can also use this point to compare the temperature of the exposed embers between the two cigars.
4.  Ash each cigar in a different ashtray so you have the option of comparing the ash colour.  Is the ash noticeably different in colour between the two cigars, and is there any consistency in which ash is darker or lighter (for example, do the naturally ashing cigars all have a lighter ash colour)?
5.  Measure the smoking times of both cigars.  Does one smoke faster than the other, and is this consistent across the three participants.

By smoking both cigars simultaneously, you negate the potential effect of ambient conditions as both cigars are in the exact same environment.  And controlling the draw interval helps smoke the cigars evenly and allow matching resting periods, while the purpose of measuring the wrapper temperature allows for an even temperature comparison between the two cigars without having to ash the cigar where the ash is being left intact.  Each person can also compare the flavours and profiles of their two cigars to see if they smoke noticeably differently and if they have a preference between the two, but this one is obviously more subjective.

[Fuzz AI]

I have an IR thermometer and thermocouple at the office. But I can tell you right now that ash does act as an insulator. I've done that test so many times with charcoal briquettes. I think I may still have the pics of two different briquettes, one with a very heavy ash layer that didn't fall, the other that easily fell off. If I recall correctly, the core temps were similar, but the outside was off by 100C.

 

[El Presidente]

17 hours ago, Fuzz said:

I have an IR thermometer and thermocouple at the office. But I can tell you right now that ash does act as an insulator. I've done that test so many times with charcoal briquettes. I think I may still have the pics of two different briquettes, one with a very heavy ash layer that didn't fall, the other that easily fell off. If I recall correctly, the core temps were similar, but the outside was off by 100C.

 

Fuzz....it would be the core temp that we would be looking at. 

In effect, does ash cool the burn. 

I can match weights, dry box  etc. This test would be repeated in order to try and replicate the result. 

[Fuzz AI]

56 minutes ago, El Presidente said:

Fuzz....it would be the core temp that we would be looking at. 

In effect, does ash cool the burn. 

I can match weights, dry box  etc. This test would be repeated in order to try and replicate the result. 

Core temps were similar in our tests. From my experience, the ash kept the heat in. Of course, different material and use, but the principal is similar.

There are lot of variables in this test that you would need to account for and minimise. You could jury rig a small vacuum pump with some rubber tubing and a plastic syringe, to better control the draw on each cigar. An IR temp gun can take external temps, but you'd need a probe to get the core temps. Not sure if a needle temp probe would withstand the heat of the core, and they are bloody expensive.

Interestingly enough, I did come across a paper on pyrometry, and one chapter was on the temperature of a burning cigar. Dates back to 1919. https://www.nap.edu/read/20231/chapter/57

[Habana Mike]

4 hours ago, Fuzz said:

Core temps were similar in our tests. From my experience, the ash kept the heat in. Of course, different material and use, but the principal is similar.

There are lot of variables in this test that you would need to account for and minimise. You could jury rig a small vacuum pump with some rubber tubing and a plastic syringe, to better control the draw on each cigar. An IR temp gun can take external temps, but you'd need a probe to get the core temps. Not sure if a needle temp probe would withstand the heat of the core, and they are bloody expensive.

Interestingly enough, I did come across a paper on pyrometry, and one chapter was on the temperature of a burning cigar. Dates back to 1919. https://www.nap.edu/read/20231/chapter/57

Damn! Some people are serious about their science......