Consistency of Flavor vs. Consistent Overall Quality

[Colt45]

This has been touched on briefly in the past, but I was ruminating on it in my mind again the other day. My question: Cigar Company X, in Country Y, producing cigars using tobacco farmed in country(s) @ / $ / & -

Would you rather they strive for consistency of flavor, year in, year out, regardless of tobacco quality / their ability to do so regularly - or would you prefer they produce the best quality cigar possible with the materials available?

I understand there is brand identity, and any number of "variables" - it's really just a simple. non - binding, overall question. Thanks for any thoughts.

[El Presidente]

Ross, Interesting you raised this.

An hour ago I took a Partagas D5 from my dry box. I clipped the cap with ny nails as i am want to do, and ten took a taste of the dry draw.

All toasted tobacco and savoury spiced cream (unsweetened cream, paprika,capsicum). i just thought to myself that this is Partagas.

I wouldn't want to see that go. For those with a personal/historical connection to brands/particular cigars.....it is so important.

[skalls]

I'm greedy, I want both. I'd rather not sacrifice one for the other.

[Colt45]

I wouldn't want to see that go.

In my thinking, that cuts to the chase.......

You're the head honcho, and are given this report - RA, with the tobacco on hand, if we try to maintain expected flavor character, we will produce flat, mundane cigars with little chance of redemption. On the other hand, with the tobacco on hand, we can produce some truly flavorful cigars, in somewhat lesser quantity, that won't necessarily represent what is expected of our brand, but are fantastic cigars nonetheless.

What's your choice - former, latter, or off the board, not produce with that band at all?

I'm greedy, I want both. I'd rather not sacrifice one for the other.

The grail, and I don't blame you

[raymond5737]

In the Non Cuban world, they just create a new line of cigars, call them Special Editions, Limited Editions et. al. so they have the freedom to create a new line for Gurkah, Fuente, Drew Estate, Don Pepin Garcia, you get what I'm saying. Whenever they want. And no one says anything negative about it. It's been going on forever.

It is when they try to change the formula of a pre-existing cigar that the trouble starts.

Although back about 15 20 years ago when La Gloria Cubana changed their formula, everyone I knew cried foul. "How could they change the formula, they had such a good thing going with lots of followers.

[suggs]

In the Non Cuban world, they just create a new line of cigars, call them Special Editions, Limited Editions et. al. so they have the freedom to create a new line for Gurkah, Fuente, Drew Estate, Don Pepin Garcia, you get what I'm saying. Whenever they want. And no one says anything negative about it. It's been going on forever.

I'm not sure I can agree with most of this, beyond the sentiment at least. Cuba does the same thing, albeit more infrequently, with REs, LEs, and other "lines" like the Montecristo Open (to use the most damning example).

Secondly, *plenty* of people say a lot of negative things about the countless Gurkha or Rocky Patel blends, and the never-ending unicorn chases for LEs that the "boutique" brands like Tatuaje, Viaje, etc. cause people go on.

Finally, this comes down to differences between styles of marketing. If Pepin Garcia says "you know what, people know my cigars for really peppery blasts in the face...maybe I should do something different," and releases a different line of cigars with completely different flavors/strengths, what's wrong with that? Wouldn't these different lines be similar to different marcas of Cuban cigars? For example, if someone wanted a "milder or medium" CC, I would suggest they gravitate towards the H. Upmann brand *in general.* If a different person really likes Pepin Garcia's cigars, but wants something milder, he would be steered towards this newer offering I just mentioned.

TL;DR: CCs use different marcas to offer different flavors/profiles/strengths along the spectrum, NC manufacturers create different lines to hit most every point along the spectrum.

I'll stop thread-jacking and go back to my corner now!

Tyler

[PapaDisco]

Well it's kind of like the wine business no? A label has a reputation for producing a certain wine with a certain profile from a particular grape. The taste varies from year to year but remains within the range of expectations.

It would be nice if cigar producers would do the same thing, but with the genetics of the tobacco constantly changing, and the sourcing of the tobacco being fluid from year to year, it's impossible to see any consistency coming from terroir and 50 year old strains.

I would like to see cigars be entirely estate grown, dried and rolled. Like that you'd get to experience the variation from year to year, but it would still be within the range of what the estate planted in anticipation of eventually rolling. As it is, the only thing that's consistent in a marca is the guy who directs the blending.

[ayepatz]

"Character" is in woefully short demand in all areas of life these days.

Our pop stars are anodyne, our movies are bland, our politicians are ciphers.

To my mind Cubanos are one of the last unspoilt sources of individual expression, and character.

Long may it continue!

[Habanos2000]

In my thinking, that cuts to the chase.......

You're the head honcho, and are given this report - RA, with the tobacco on hand, if we try to maintain expected flavor character, we will produce flat, mundane cigars with little chance of redemption. On the other hand, with the tobacco on hand, we can produce some truly flavorful cigars, in somewhat lesser quantity, that won't necessarily represent what is expected of our brand, but are fantastic cigars nonetheless.

What's your choice - former, latter, or off the board, not produce with that band at all?

I think the decision really depends on where the particular brand is positioned. If I'm Mr. Cohiba I don't sacrifice my flagship's quality (ie, expected flavor profile) just for the sake of putting out a product. To another poster's point, if I had good quality tobacco that would produce a truly flavorful cigar, but is too far away from what my customer base would be expecting, I'd brand it under a different banner. I'm not sure if the Monte Cristo Open is a good example of what I'm thinking, but it is somewhere down that path.

[Waldschrat]

Well it's kind of like the wine business no? A label has a reputation for producing a certain wine with a certain profile from a particular grape. The taste varies from year to year but remains within the range of expectations..

I concur with that: the flagship wine is supposed to be always the best (versus e.g. the second wine). And what is exciting is to see how while general character remains the same, from year to year there are differences. The way they manage is selection. What does not qualify for the top wine comes into the second. Not so familiar with cigar making - but is this how Partagas differentiates between e.g. Shorts (which in my view are close to D4 from taste point of view) and the cheaper ones like mille fleurs?

Difference with wine: prices vary from year to year, so somewhat you pay less if year is bad.....

[Colt45]

Well it's kind of like the wine business no? A label has a reputation for producing a certain wine with a certain profile from a particular grape. The taste varies from year to year but remains within the range of expectations.

I concur with that:

I guess the biggest difference is how wine grapes and tobacco leaves are processed. Wine grapes become a homogenous entity, while tobacco leaves remain individuals. One bad leaf in a cigar with three or four leaves might be a problem.

Interesting about estate or small lot cigars - it would be like a cru wine, which are typically the most affected by seasonal variables.