A question about aging

SONNY1 · December 5, 2007

Gentlemen,

As I plan to devote much of my time to collecting and enjoying cuban cigars, I was hoping someone could enlighten me as to the need to age certain cigars. What characteristics of the stick indicate that it isnt "quite ready" to be smoked?

Why would the manufacturers put out a product that isnt "smokable" yet?

Exactly what chemical transformation transpires in my humidor over time that enriches a cigar?

What, if any, is the difference between aging and decay?

Thanks fellas.

Colt45 · December 5, 2007

This is my personal overall outlook on the subject:

Tobacco is planted, grown, harvested, and processed. Part of the processing is curing, fermenting, and then to

varying degrees aging. Aging of the separate types of tobacco in bales.

Cigars are then rolled with these tobaccos - so you've got different types of tobacco, aged for various

amounts of time, put together in a cigar. It will take some time for these tobaccos, newly introduced together,

to integrate, or as many say, marry. I've no idea as to what the actual chemical process is.

As to why some cigars need more, or can stand more, time to age, my opinion is that the blend plays a large

part (type of tobaccos used). A strong blend may require much more time than a cigar intentionally blended

to be mild, for instance.

Just a couple of things to look for with regards to how much time a cigar might need, or it's aging

potential would be sourness or green-ness, strong tannins, full concentrated mouthfeel, and what I'd

call overall depth.

These are just my own opinions, and I'm sure others will be able to give you more info.

SONNY1 · December 5, 2007

» This is my personal overall outlook on the subject:

»

» Tobacco is planted, grown, harvested, and processed. Part of the

» processing is curing, fermenting, and then to

» varying degrees aging. Aging of the separate types of tobacco in bales.

»

» Cigars are then rolled with these tobaccos - so you've got different types

» of tobacco, aged for various

» amounts of time, put together in a cigar. It will take some time for these

» tobaccos, newly introduced together,

» to integrate, or as many say, marry. I've no idea as to what the actual

» chemical process is.

»

» As to why some cigars need more, or can stand more, time to age, my

» opinion is that the blend plays a large

» part (type of tobaccos used). A strong blend may require much more time

» than a cigar intentionally blended

» to be mild, for instance.

»

» Just a couple of things to look for with regards to how much time a cigar

» might need, or it's aging

» potential would be sourness or green-ness, strong tannins, full

» concentrated mouthfeel, and what I'd

» call overall depth.

»

» These are just my own opinions, and I'm sure others will be able to give

» you more info.

Thank you. Its a start. Do people really spend hundreds, maybe thousands of dollars on boxes with the sole intention of having them sit for years?

brian1 · December 5, 2007

The dead give away is an amonia smell, or if it tastes like **** it probably just needs more time to settle down. As to the "need" to age cigars, volumes have been written on this topic but its generally accepted that cigars taste better with 3-5 years of age on them and older cigars can be highly sought after for many reasons including rarity, a distintive taste, investment..you name it.

I am by no means an expert on vintage cigars and have very limited experience with very old cigars but the few I have had have a distintive flavor and aroma that you do not get from younger cigars.

As too putting out a product that isnt ready yet, well most people have no clue how a great cigar should taste and cuba needs the money so the onus is on the consumer to do the aging if that is what you prefer. Many people do enjoy young harsh and tannic cigars so its very subjective as to what defines ready to smoke.

I have rambled on enough for now :-) I am sure others will weigh in.

» Gentlemen,

»

» As I plan to devote much of my time to collecting and enjoying cuban

» cigars, I was hoping someone could enlighten me as to the need to age

» certain cigars. What characteristics of the stick indicate that it isnt

» "quite ready" to be smoked?

»

» Why would the manufacturers put out a product that isnt "smokable" yet?

»

» Exactly what chemical transformation transpires in my humidor over time

» that enriches a cigar?

»

» What, if any, is the difference between aging and decay?

»

» Thanks fellas.

brian1 · December 5, 2007

Your kidding right!! Is that a rhetorical question LOL! You betcha we do:-D

» » » Thank you. Its a start. Do people really spend hundreds, maybe thousands

» of dollars on boxes with the sole intention of having them sit for years?

Colt45 · December 5, 2007

» Thank you. Its a start. Do people really spend hundreds, maybe thousands

» of dollars on boxes with the sole intention of having them sit for years?

Sure - just as people buy cases of top growth Bordeaux that they put away for decades(s).

But sometimes, an old cigar is simply that - old. I feel that at some point they reach their peak, and after

that they are just decaying.

There are some savages (yes Melvin :-) ), that will smoke through boxes of the youngest, freshest cigars,

and just keep getting more. I probably fall somewhere in the middle - don't have a crapload of cigars,

so I carefully smoke what I do have.

SONNY1 · December 5, 2007

» The dead give away is an amonia smell, or if it tastes like **** it

» probably just needs more time to settle down. As to the "need" to age

» cigars, volumes have been written on this topic but its generally accepted

» that cigars taste better with 3-5 years of age on them and older cigars can

» be highly sought after for many reasons including rarity, a distintive

» taste, investment..you name it.

»

» I am by no means an expert on vintage cigars and have very limited

» experience with very old cigars but the few I have had have a distintive

» flavor and aroma that you do not get from younger cigars.

»

» As too putting out a product that isnt ready yet, well most people have no

» clue how a great cigar should taste and cuba needs the money so the onus is

» on the consumer to do the aging if that is what you prefer. Many people do

» enjoy young harsh and tannic cigars so its very subjective as to what

» defines ready to smoke.

»

» I have rambled on enough for now :-) I am sure others will weigh in.

»

» » Gentlemen,

» »

» » As I plan to devote much of my time to collecting and enjoying cuban

» » cigars, I was hoping someone could enlighten me as to the need to age

» » certain cigars. What characteristics of the stick indicate that it isnt

» » "quite ready" to be smoked?

» »

» » Why would the manufacturers put out a product that isnt "smokable" yet?

» »

» » Exactly what chemical transformation transpires in my humidor over time

» » that enriches a cigar?

» »

» » What, if any, is the difference between aging and decay?

» »

» » Thanks fellas.

Brian,

Will a properly aged cigar have a consistent characteristic thruout its smoke? By that I mean will there be little evidence of change from first third to last third?

Colt45 · December 5, 2007

Allow me to use a particular cigar as an example - the 2006 Cohiba EL Piramide.

Based on discussions here, many members feel this could be a cigar for the ages. That it has immense

aging potential, and was blended for the long haul. Some find it a flavorful cigar right now.

I've tried one so far - I found it to be very powerful, full bodied, and rather rough. Flavor-wise, rich earthy

tobacco - rather straightforward. I believe I called it a sledgehammer.

These traits lead me to believe it will age tremendously, and while I can't be one hundred percent sure

what it will turn into, all signs point to a fantastic cigar.

brian1 · December 5, 2007

IMVHO, no infact just the opposite, a properly aged cigar should have evidence of evolving and changing flavors i.e, complexity throughout the cigar. This statement though only applies if quality tobacco was used initially and also it assumes the cigar was stored correctly.

A cigar that doesnt change much from start to finish is not what cuban tobacco is about.

»

» Brian,

»

» Will a properly aged cigar have a consistent characteristic thruout its

» smoke? By that I mean will there be little evidence of change from first

» third to last third?

El Presidente · December 5, 2007

Some great advice has already been posted.

I always liken a great Cuban cigar to a Journey. A great cigar must take you on a journey from beginning to end. One cigar may be light in body but introduces through its length lilting elements of sweet spices and at other times savoury spices and may yet again alter the body strength as well. This is what we term complexity and I feel it is the highest compliment one can give to a cigar. To many complexity is the holy Grail of cigars.

Some cigars achieve complexity quite young. A great Ramon Allones Specially Select may have a mix of power, sweetness, espresso, earth, leather. With 5 years of age however it may alter its structure (through the maturing and melding of the filler, binder, wrapper leaf) into a medium bodied cigar where the raw power has eased but in return it rewards you with raisins, cream, leather and spice. Another 5 years and it transforms again. Smoother, the flavours more lilting, more integrated. In all forms it has complexity yet the ageing of the cigar has continued to transform it. Different people will prefer it at differing points of its development.

Now other cigars can be be all rich tobacco at its outset yet not much complexity or flavour development. Yet in 5 years the flavour complexity is evident. At 8-10 years it is exceptional. Many Upmanns fall into this pattern.

Some cigars are weak and insipid when young...weak and insipid at 5 years and weak and insipid at 10 years. Poor tobacco in poor result out regardless of age.

The secret is a young box with great aroma and at a minimum high quality tobacco which is rich even if the flavour diversity is cold. They need to be rolled well. I have yet to have a young box of cigars with these aspects which have not aged beautifully into complex cigars at 5-8 years.

In the main since late 05 Habanos s.a has been launching high quality cigars utilising adequately aged leaf. The cigars even when young have been remarkably approachable with flavour complexity. There are always exceptions but the Habanos community has certainly noticed the difference.

SONNY1 · December 6, 2007

» Some great advice has already been posted.

»

» I always liken a great Cuban cigar to a Journey. A great cigar must take

» you on a journey from beginning to end. One cigar may be light in body but

» introduces through its length lilting elements of sweet spices and at other

» times savoury spices and may yet again alter the body strength as well.

» This is what we term complexity and I feel it is the highest compliment

» one can give to a cigar. To many complexity is the holy Grail of cigars.

»

» Some cigars achieve complexity quite young. A great Ramon Allones

» Specially Select may have a mix of power, sweetness, espresso, earth,

» leather. With 5 years of age however it may alter its structure (through

» the maturing and melding of the filler, binder, wrapper leaf) into a

» medium bodied cigar where the raw power has eased but in return it rewards

» you with raisins, cream, leather and spice. Another 5 years and it

» transforms again. Smoother, the flavours more lilting, more integrated. In

» all forms it has complexity yet the ageing of the cigar has continued to

» transform it. Different people will prefer it at differing points of its

» development.

»

» Now other cigars can be be all rich tobacco at its outset yet not much

» complexity or flavour development. Yet in 5 years the flavour complexity

» is evident. At 8-10 years it is exceptional. Many Upmanns fall into this

» pattern.

»

» Some cigars are weak and insipid when young...weak and insipid at 5 years

» and weak and insipid at 10 years. Poor tobacco in poor result out

» regardless of age.

»

» The secret is a young box with great aroma and at a minimum high quality

» tobacco which is rich even if the flavour diversity is cold. They need to

» be rolled well. I have yet to have a young box of cigars with these

» aspects which have not aged beutifully into complex cigars at 5-8 years.

»

» In the main since late 05 Habanos s.a has been launching high quality

» cigars utilising adequately aged leaf. The cigars even when young have

» been remarkably approachable with flavour complexity. There are always

» exceptions but the Habanos community has certainly noticed the difference.

Thank you sooo much for your input. I look forward to receiving my first order tomorrow but fear that I will devour my package rather quickly.

Maybe after the Holidays i will be able to create a humidor that is devoted strictly to aging, but for now I will experience various brands and identify my personal favorites.

Its gonna be a Merry Christmas.

El Presidente · December 6, 2007

Just one thing SONNY. When you receive your cigars they need to rest for 30 days if you can. If you can't wait that long before trying one, dry box it for a few days (leave the cigar you intend to smoke out on a bench or unhumidified humidor for 48 hrs).

Makes a big difference.

Claudius · December 6, 2007

Very insightful summary, Mr. Presidente :-) Thank you.

SONNY1 · December 6, 2007

» Just one thing SONNY. When you receive your cigars they need to rest for 30

» days if you can. If you can't wait that long before trying one, dry box it

» for a few days (leave the cigar you intend to smoke out on a bench or

» unhumidified humidor for 48 hrs).

»

» Makes a big difference.

C'mon..........

I wanted that Cohiba Maduro for New Years Eve!

Now what do I do?????

Whats with the whole "resting" thing? (Geez....this gets more complicated than just sparking one up!)

I also went for a pretty penny for the 80th Anniversary Padron box. I just got it today and placed the 8 sticks in my humidor.

Does that mean they must "rest" also?

El Presidente · December 6, 2007

» C'mon..........

»

» I wanted that Cohiba Maduro for New Years Eve!

»

» Now what do I do?????

»

» Whats with the whole "resting" thing? (Geez....this gets more complicated

» than just sparking one up!)

»

» I also went for a pretty penny for the 80th Anniversary Padron box. I just

» got it today and placed the 8 sticks in my humidor.

»

» Does that mean they must "rest" also?

There is a 30 day minimum rule that refers to the time required for a cigar to get over travel. Once it leaves a stable environment a cigar can be subject to quite extreme temperature and pressure changes particularly when shipped via air. In your humidor, resting at 65% relative humidity it takes approximately 30 days to reach its zen yet again. You can really taste the difference.

Fire up a Cohiba Maduro 5 for New Years. It it were me I would drybox it for a day or two.

SONNY1 · December 6, 2007

» » C'mon..........

» »

» » I wanted that Cohiba Maduro for New Years Eve!

» »

» » Now what do I do?????

» »

» » Whats with the whole "resting" thing? (Geez....this gets more

» complicated

» » than just sparking one up!)

» »

» » I also went for a pretty penny for the 80th Anniversary Padron box. I

» just

» » got it today and placed the 8 sticks in my humidor.

» »

» » Does that mean they must "rest" also?

»

» There is a 30 day minimum rule that refers to the time required for a

» cigar to get over travel. Once it leaves a stable environment a cigar can

» be subject to quite extreme temperature and pressure changes particularly

» when shipped via air. In your humidor, resting at 65% relative humidity it

» takes approximately 30 days to reach its zen yet again. You can really

» taste the difference.

»

» Fire up a Cohiba Maduro 5 for New Years. It it were me I would drybox it

» for a day or two.

This 30 rule applies for all cigars, both cuban and non-cuban I assume.

El Presidente · December 6, 2007

»

» This 30 rule applies for all cigars, both cuban and non-cuban I assume.

Can't vouch for the non Cuban ones ;-)

Don Candido · December 6, 2007

» Thank you. Its a start. Do people really spend hundreds, maybe thousands

» of dollars on boxes with the sole intention of having them sit for years?

Yes.

Don Candido · December 6, 2007

» Allow me to use a particular cigar as an example - the 2006 Cohiba EL

» Piramide.

» Based on discussions here, many members feel this could be a cigar for the

» ages. That it has immense

» aging potential, and was blended for the long haul. Some find it a

» flavorful cigar right now.

» I've tried one so far - I found it to be very powerful, full bodied, and

» rather rough. Flavor-wise, rich earthy

» tobacco - rather straightforward. I believe I called it a sledgehammer.

»

» These traits lead me to believe it will age tremendously, and while I

» can't be one hundred percent sure

» what it will turn into, all signs point to a fantastic cigar.

I love the Cohiba Piramide EL 2006 right now, but I believe it will be immensely better in 5, 10, 15 years. I have a few stashed away.... I believe it may be one of the all-time EL releases one day.

Don Candido · December 6, 2007