Lounge Lizards This Week: CAO Brazilia in Box-Press with Joseph Magnus Straight Bourbon Whiskey/celebratory cigars/The Women in Lizard Nation, Cigars for Celebrating Milestones, Cigar-Adjacent Gifts from Significant Others, Davidoff Ownership Transition,

[El Presidente]

 

The Lizards pair the CAO Brazilia in Box-Press with Joseph Magnus Straight Bourbon Whiskey. The guys discuss recommended celebratory cigars, they answer a listener email on the best credit cards for rewards, and they share a voice memo unlike any other before. PLUS: The Women in Lizard Nation, Cigars for Celebrating Milestones, Cigar-Adjacent Gifts from Significant Others, Davidoff Ownership Transition, Tennessee Legislator Proposes E-Commerce Ban, New Cuban Trinidad & More

 

 

[NYGuido]

Great episode, as always, guys! I've been scared to try this cigar, since I have preconceived notions about CAO, but I will give it a shot after hearing the unusually varied ratings on the pod. For Senator to give a 10 to something that also gets a 7 is absolutely wild to me, and this is a stick I need to try for myself.

Your related discussion of "cigar snobbery" was interesting because I think you all acknowledge you have it to a degree and that the podcast is what has broken you out of that (which it has for me, as well). Case in point, I am smoking a La Galera Habano Lancero right now and loving it, but I would neither have known about nor tried this brand if you all hadn't featured it and raved about it (BTW, I agree with Rooster that, for me, the La Galera is more in my flavor wheelhouse than the Aladino Classic Elegante). Being a snob isn't a bad thing if it is rooted in wanting to have a good experience--we all have such limited time to smoke (well, maybe except Senator, who seems to smoke at least a box per week) that it is hard to risk it on an unknown or, worse yet, a brand we've previously disliked. Snobbery only becomes a problem when it is rooted in perceived status rather than preserving enjoyment. But, in any event, you all have done more to break that wall down than you ever have to build it up.

I also loved Lizard T's voicemail and agree with the room that the treatment she describes is deplorable and, at least in NYC, fairly rare. I've seen many women smoking at lounges in the city and they are by and large treated as any other smoker. I do recall one instance in which a male smoker (who was not a regular at our lounge) was being patronizing and a bit sexualizing to a female smoker. The regulars in the lounge shut that down REAL fast, and that guy was told that he either could behave himself or we would gladly give him an etiquette lesson of our own. The Lady Lizard was appreciative, and I bought her an Exclusivo as a peace offering, explaining that he doesn't represent us or how we treat any smoker who comes to the lounge to enjoy some time with a good cigar. I've seen her a few times since, and she's always smoking genuinely amazing stuff and actually prefers a flavor profile very similar to my own.

You and your podcast have been consistent: Cigars are the great equalizer. This doesn't mean just among men. It means among people, all people. Age, race, gender, nationality, language, income level, education, job--all of this evaporates the moment flame touches foot. We are thereafter all fellow brothers and sisters of the leaf. While I know there are smokers who may feel different, I think that there is no true Lizard who can disagree with that sentiment.

Thanks again for all you do. As I've mentioned in the FOH Discord, I've got some stuff going on with family (both human and animal) that has me a bit topsy turvy lately, but I know that I will be able to forget all about it for 2-ish hours every Tuesday.

[JDoughty]

22 hours ago, NYGuido said:

I also loved Lizard T's voicemail and agree with the room that the treatment she describes is deplorable and, at least in NYC, fairly rare. I've seen many women smoking at lounges in the city and they are by and large treated as any other smoker. I do recall one instance in which a male smoker (who was not a regular at our lounge) was being patronizing and a bit sexualizing to a female smoker. The regulars in the lounge shut that down REAL fast, and that guy was told that he either could behave himself or we would gladly give him an etiquette lesson of our own. The Lady Lizard was appreciative, and I bought her an Exclusivo as a peace offering, explaining that he doesn't represent us or how we treat any smoker who comes to the lounge to enjoy some time with a good cigar. I've seen her a few times since, and she's always smoking genuinely amazing stuff and actually prefers a flavor profile very similar to my own.

The cigar lounge harassment incident she described happened about thirty years ago in San Francisco, California. To my knowledge it has not been repeated since. What she didn't mention was that he was drunk as a skunk and she was snapping her cigar cutter in his direction to emphasize the threat. I bet she'd have used it, too. My spouse is a genuine badass, even if she doesn't look like one. I'm proud of her and I promise not to steal any of the Lizard of the Week cigars for myself no matter how tempting they are. 😆

[NYGuido]

2 hours ago, JDoughty said:

The cigar lounge harassment incident she described happened about thirty years ago in San Francisco, California. To my knowledge it has not been repeated since. What she didn't mention was that he was drunk as a skunk and she was snapping her cigar cutter in his direction to emphasize the threat. I bet she'd have used it, too. My spouse is a genuine badass, even if she doesn't look like one. I'm proud of her and I promise not to steal any of the Lizard of the Week cigars for myself no matter how tempting they are. 😆

Wait, that was YOUR WIFE!? F-ing amazing!!!! Dude, you have to come to the Discord tonight with her and relay the story in all its detail.

[JDoughty]

2 hours ago, NYGuido said:

Wait, that was YOUR WIFE!? F-ing amazing!!!! Dude, you have to come to the Discord tonight with her and relay the story in all its detail.

She's a hard 'no' on any more community involvement for reasons you might have seen, or missed, depending on how quick the mods here were. 

[NYGuido]

2 hours ago, JDoughty said:

She's a hard 'no' on any more community involvement for reasons you might have seen, or missed, depending on how quick the mods here were. 

This makes me profoundly sad for so many reasons. Love to you and T from NYC, and Long Live Lizard -- yes, including Lady Lizards -- Nation.

[Lucas Buck]

I too loved T’s voicemail and I must say was shocked by the consistent demeaning, patronizing behavior exhibited toward her all these years. I don’t get it. This kind of behavior is abhorrent to me and should be to everyone. I have a group of brothers in the cigar community who have always treated my cigar smoking wife with the utmost respect and been nothing but welcoming to her over the years. I’m sorry T. You deserve better. 

[JDoughty]

2 minutes ago, Lucas Buck said:

I too loved T’s voicemail and I must say was shocked by the consistent demeaning, patronizing behavior exhibited toward her all these years. I don’t get it. This kind of behavior is abhorrent to me and should be to everyone. I have a group of brothers in the cigar community who have always treated my cigar smoking wife with the utmost respect and been nothing but welcoming to her over the years. I’m sorry T. You deserve better. 

It literally happened within hours of the post going up in this thread. We both saw her point being proved in real time last night. The mods got on it fast, but she's probably done here. 😥

[Lucas Buck]

5 minutes ago, JDoughty said:

It literally happened within hours of the post going up in this thread. We both saw her point being proved in real time last night. The mods got on it fast, but she's probably done here. 😥

Well that’s a shame but I can’t say I blame her. Sorry to hear it. I hope she knows most of us are not like that. 

[JDoughty]

1 hour ago, Lucas Buck said:

Well that’s a shame but I can’t say I blame her. Sorry to hear it. I hope she knows most of us are not like that. 

People in general are like that, though. The reality is that she will always have to deal with a base level ration of sh*t from people challenging her existence and judging or tone policing her voice, her clothes and her smile in ways that they would never even think about doing to a guy. It doesn't have to get to the level of sexual assault to be a bad experience. If anyone is still surprised that a lot of women do not disclose themselves online and do avoid a lot of cigar spaces, they haven't been paying attention. 

We share the downstairs entertainment center/computer. It's two keyboards and one click to log into either of our accounts and usually it's this one. Spoiler alert: it's been her talking on this one pretty interchangeably, which she prefers because it keeps the focus of conversation on the actual topic of cigars and avoids the perpetual annoyance of people wanting to tone police, challenge or invalidate as soon as they hear a female voice. She has a harder time having a normal conversation that is solely about cigars without being exhausted by the constant if usually pretty low grade barrage of challenging, invalidating, tone policing, inadvertently unwelcoming or exclusionary jokes, etc, that come with the territory. Sucks that it is that way, but I honestly don't think it's likely to change very soon. Real world spaces are actually better in this respect, since fewer people are bold enough to say things to her face that they feel free to say online. 

[Lucas Buck]

As hard as this is to hear it is an eye opener. I appreciate both of you and your frank discussion of this issue. 

[NYGuido]

53 minutes ago, Lucas Buck said:

As hard as this is to hear it is an eye opener. I appreciate both of you and your frank discussion of this issue. 

Agreed, and I think this is something that all of us need reminders of from time to time. It takes courage to bring up injustice and internal strength to withstand the criticism that comes with it. I listened to her VM and really appreciated it because I think it shines a light on an issue that many of us may not think about on a daily basis but nonetheless is very important to the overall health of our cigar loving community. The very fact that Lizard T experienced this in real time on FoH--a place I genuinely am proud to be part of and have generally thought of as welcoming and kind--shows that none of us is immune to the lapse in judgment that may make someone feel uncomfortable for nothing more than existing.

 

2 hours ago, JDoughty said:

Real world spaces are actually better in this respect, since fewer people are bold enough to say things to her face that they feel free to say online. 

Totally get this and it is shown through the story Lizard T shared in the voicemail. In person, the individual can respond and subject the offender to immediate and usually embarrassing consequences, making them the butt of the joke and uncomfortable (as anyone who does such insulting things should be made to feel).

Though, I bet sometimes, they're just jealous Lizard T is smoking better cigars

 

[JDoughty]

It's rough out there, guys. I don't think most of us really know how rough. Awhile ago she posted some pics on another site involving our (okay, I'll be honest, mostly her) collection of historical and vintage cigars with interesting content about them. First few comments were entirely about her body and wardrobe choices. She was wearing cold weather outdoorsy clothing. Not gender specific and definitely not revealing by any stretch of the imagination. The resulting conversation was not about the cigars. It sucked and she stopped being interested in posting there, or posting much at all, because why would she. The comments weren't really all that gross or explicit, but they were unsolicited and unnecessary opinions tone policing her appearance and not about the cigars. I've posted literally the same content with zero issues. I persuaded her to at least stick her nose back into online cigar community in here, but it only took a few hours for basically the same thing to happen in response to a female voice, in a place I told her it probably wouldn't happen. It's bad, and I've seen too much of it to be able to kid myself that it isn't. I'm glad she did come out and share her perspective, but I doubt she'll be doing it again any time soon. And that is a lot of experience and perspective that is lost to the community because people can't just talk to women about cigars like a normal human being. I hope we can do better someday. 

[NYGuido]

7 minutes ago, JDoughty said:

It's rough out there, guys. I don't think most of us really know how rough. Awhile ago she posted some pics on another site involving our (okay, I'll be honest, mostly her) collection of historical and vintage cigars with interesting content about them. First few comments were entirely about her body and wardrobe choices. She was wearing cold weather outdoorsy clothing. Not gender specific and definitely not revealing by any stretch of the imagination. The resulting conversation was not about the cigars. It sucked and she stopped being interested in posting there, or posting much at all, because why would she. The comments weren't really all that gross or explicit, but they were unsolicited and unnecessary opinions tone policing her appearance and not about the cigars. I've posted literally the same content with zero issues. I persuaded her to at least stick her nose back into online cigar community in here, but it only took a few hours for basically the same thing to happen in response to a female voice, in a place I told her it probably wouldn't happen. It's bad, and I've seen too much of it to be able to kid myself that it isn't. I'm glad she did come out and share her perspective, but I doubt she'll be doing it again any time soon. And that is a lot of experience and perspective that is lost to the community because people can't just talk to women about cigars like a normal human being. I hope we can do better someday. 

Kudos to you both for sharing your experience so openly and candidly. I cannot tell you how much I appreciate reading it. Many times, those who take offense to having such things pointed out are those who need to hear it the most.