Any tobacco growers on FOH?

[demiurgic]

Hey guys,

I wanted to share a little story that led me to seeking out real Cuban seeds to experiment with.

I am an aquaponic-ist (if the word even exists) here in Hawaii (using

fish tanks to raise plants) and am totally inspired to learn how to grow and cure tobacco.

Why am I inspired? Here's why. I tried a cigar (well, it was really a bunch of leaves patched

together with wheat flour as a glue, a real cohiba if you may), from tobacco that was

grown in an aquaponic system. The entire plant was harvested and hung

upside down for 10 days and then left in an oven with the pilot light

on (and later the leaves were reconstitutred in a microwave so they

could be DE-stemmed and rolled without cracking)

One could not have treated tobacco in a more cruel fashion, other than ciggarettes of course.

Now, the reason I am writing this email is because I was blown away by

the result.

It was sweet palatable tobacco (a strain called "turkish"

with leaves in the vicinity of 6-8 inches, Ligero seco and volado,

almost the same size).

I could not believe that I did not get nauseated (enough nicotine was removed by the 10 day "curing" process), and

the damn thing had so much potential I could have cried in hapiness.

Here in Hawaii, we are almost exactly at the same latitude as Cuba and I feel my knowledge of aquaponics may help grow some real fine tobacco.

this post is a call to anyone who is 100% sure they have seeds from Cuba and are willing to either sell or share some or guide me as to who can.

It's my experiance that ANYTHING grown in an aquaponic system almost always tastes better, period. From tomatoes to leeks, does not matter. But maybe tobacco too?

Don't know really, and need to find out to combine two passions.

Lastly, I visit this forum almost daily, have been for over a year, but only post when I have something worthwhile to add.

So thanks for all the great posts I follow.....but usually never leave replies to.

Aloha!

[Taino]

...sorry mate... but this is as crazy as this forum can get. God bless you.

...so much for terroir, but I've never heard the cubans experimented with hidroponics... maybe it works.

[zuma]

Hmm... very interesting indeed... it goes against the sacrosanct belief that it is not just the seed but also the soil. Nevertheless, I hope your efforts are rewarded with some real ono cigars...

[SamuraiJack]

I have read a few reviews of Hawaiian cigars, nothing special it seems.

Hydro cigars, on the other hand, that may be somethin...

[Stalebread]

Fascinating project.

Don't know about Cuban seed but I sure hope you'll keep the board informed of your progress.

[OZCUBAN]

Best of luck

There's nothing like growing your own

Cheers

Oz

[stargazer14]

Try York Seed company, the'll have what you need!

and some info on fermenting and drying, do a 'cigar' search.

http://www.howtogrowtobacco.com/

now, you'll have to send a hydro-stick for the info.....

[Colt45]

No help with the seeds here either, but for discussion's sake, I have a few questions / thoughts:

Do you feel the seeds by themselves impart the major characteristics of the grown plant? Or do the plants acquire their traits as they grow,

from the environmental conditions? Obviously, post harvest processing plays a vital role in tobacco used in the making of cigars, but if you

feel growing method impacts final character to a large degree, does seed origin really matter?

[cigarros]

I know few resources about this:

http://howtogrowtobacco.com/

and http://www.seedman.com/Tobacco.htm

Good luck!

[demiurgic]

...sorry mate... but this is as crazy as this forum can get. God bless you.

...so much for terroir, but I've never heard the cubans experimented with hidroponics... maybe it works.

Actually it's AQUAponics, a marriage of hrdroponics (where one must add chemical fertilizer to the water so plant roots have nutrients (nitrates/nitrites) and aquaculture (a somewhat dead science here in the US where the FED has pulled a lot of funding out of recently. It's unsustainable because fish disease and mortality rates are high, and once again just like hydroponics, the system has a crutch from the get go)

Aquaponics, however, is seamless integration. This science mimics a natural pond culture, as it is found in nature.

In a fish tank, there is poop and pee in the water. Aquaponics has found that this water is loaded with everything a plant needs (similar to using chicken manure and steer manure to fertilize on land)

this water is run thru shallow troughs with plants floating on polystyrene rafts with roots in the water. the plant roots readily absorb those nutrients and send the water back crisp and clear to the fish who like it that way. This circulates continously to keep water clean and aerated (add dissoved oxygen to the water so fish can breathe)

It's very stable and production and quality of vegerables grown in such a system is unbelievable. Everything tastes sweet.

1- - Do you feel the seeds by themselves impart the major characteristics of the grown plant? Or do the plants acquire their traits as they grow, from the environmental conditions?

2 - - Obviously, post harvest processing plays a vital role in tobacco used in the making of cigars, but if you

feel growing method impacts final character to a large degree, does seed origin really matter?

[/quote

1- - Yes I do. I have personally seem several types of tobacco plants here in Hawaii. It's amazing that a seed that is barely visible to the naked eye carries with it it's genetic nature, like everything else.

Seeds make a difference because if I the cigar I smoked was made from a different tobacco ( we used Turkish, which I think is used for ciggaretes), it would be different experiance perhaps. I am not sure till I try it.

Some plants are naturally smaller with smaller leaves, and some are massive, with leaves that are several feet long. some plants have stems and veins that are fine and small while others have massive celery type of stems that seems water laden to the eye.

2 - - If you go to the websites of those who grow cigar tobacco here in the US (Kauai Cigar Co. in Hawaii and Eric's place, Black Cat Cigar in Kentucky) you will see the post production is no small thing and those companies must send their tobaco abroad after it's cured, for further fermentation and of course to be rolled.

Although HSA trained a bunch of youngin's in a few short years to replace the classic rollers of old Havana, I think quite a few people insist that this 'apprenticeship' should last a decade at least for a true torcedor to emerge at the end.

So yes, post production is something I have not even fully considered because the science of growing tobacco is complex and deep and I can only start growing quality tobacco and hope the momentum will gather more outside interest to help me cure and ferment it.

Then I have to figure out how to roll my own cigars, which I have NO idea where to start with. Not yet, atleast.

So seed origin may not matter, but surely there is a reason why so many established cigar companies, Padron, Torano, etc who fled Cuba, pride themselves on using Cuban seed. I just want to start with the very best I can. And that is surely Cuban!

thanks for all the great replies! Will keep you posted when things move. Germinatin, Growing and curing is a 30 week process even before fermentation occurs. Hopefully I will get around to this project sooner, among the many others, since I love a good smoke~

Demiurgic

[Buch0]

Sounds like a fascinating experiment mate, I applaud your intrigue and initiative. All the best, im sure many of us will follow your progress!

[Colt45]

So seed origin may not matter, but surely there is a reason why so many established cigar companies, Padron, Torano, etc who fled Cuba, pride themselves on using Cuban seed.

Therein lies the proverbial rub - as we can all attest, tobacco grown in Nicaragua does not taste the same as that grown in Honduras or as that grown

in Cuba, even when theoretically using the same seeds.

It's widely held that tobacco, like grapes used for wine, gets much of it's flavor characteristics from it's environment. Will hydro remove this aspect

from the equation?

And please don't misinterpret my questions - they are out of curiosity and for discussion purposes only - I'm looking forward to your results.

[El Presidente]

This is the most technical thread since Ken trying to work his Ipod

I am looking forward to the results! As for rolling cigars I am sure we can source some literature/video for you when you are ready to go.

[Tampa1257]

Best of luck in your endeavor. Like Colt, it has been argued by many (including myself) that taking the same tobacco seed and growing it in different locations will result in different tastes. That the environment soil structure, nutrients etc are what make the difference in the taste of the tobacco. So I would personally imagine that your experiment using Aquaponic would develop a plant that has yet another totally different taste from the seed because it will not have the same structure of elements affecting the plant during its growth cycle.

You have an interesting experiment going, best of luck!

[samb]

Wow, sounds like and interesting feat. Im really not sure about where to get Cuban seed tobacco, but if you find some, let us know the results of your project.

[bunburyist]

might be a dumb question but - is it legal to grow tobacco where you are?

It should be of course but I wouldn't be remotely surprised to learn that mostplaces don't allow it, at least not on a big scale.

[OZCUBAN]

might be a dumb question but - is it legal to grow tobacco where you are?

It should be of course but I wouldn't be remotely surprised to learn that mostplaces don't allow it, at least not on a big scale.

As far as i know in West Australia it is ILLEGAL,not sure on the rest of the country

[demiurgic]

Thanks for the encouragement guys.

Are there educational videos about Cuban tobacco? I would love to watch these long before instructions on rolling a cigar (thanks for the offer Prez)

Since we are on the subject.

The following questions are for someone who can answer technical stuff about Cuban tobacco and growing conditions.

(Please stumble upon this thread Punch Joe...fingers crossed)

1. What do Cubans do about controlling mold in their curing barns? We are on teh same latitude Hawaii and Cuba is, so I know you guys must hurt because of the damn mold ruining good tobacco like it does for me.

2. How long is tobacco cured for after it's harvested? does it stay in the sun at first to bring the oils out? Or is it immediately bunched up and racked up in a barn with lots of air flow and no direct sunlight to start the curing process? right?

And after this is done... how long is it fermented for?

3. Does Cuban soil have good irrigarion or does it get water logged duting the rains?

Any clues to what the farmers feed that soil to make replenish it after a harvest? It is left fallow for a while? 2-3 harvests in a year? Any potassium or calcium given to the soil and is the soil red at all? What is the average PH of the soil?

4. I suspect there are many varieties of seeds in Cuba and plants that grow wrappers must be different in geneology than filler/binder leaf.

Or am I wrong?

Is wrapper leaf just a positional thing on a plant (good looking, dark ligero, for example becomes wrapper and seco/volado form a combination of filler/binder?

I will try and find that great post where El Prez dissects a cigar to find out the % of Ligero, Seco and Volado in cigars from several years.

He is such a scientist... (and bully to poor Ken and Smithy), that El Prez

thanks fellaz,

Demi

[Colt45]

I will try and find that great post where El Prez dissects a cigar to find out the % of Ligero, Seco and Volado in cigars from several years.

Here is a link to the dissection thread, along with another related:

Link1

Link2

Also, I've sent you a PM with a link to a site with information which may be of help. It used to be available on the guerrillero site, but is no

longer, at least that I can find. I'll send the link to RA as well - if he feel's it appropriate, he can post the link for those interested.

[aavkk]

great thread, and I think Hamlet should fly out to Hawaii on Rob's dime for research purposes of course to make sure the tobacco is rolled into the best possible end product

[demiurgic]

great thread, and I think Hamlet should fly out to Hawaii on Rob's dime for research purposes of course to make sure the tobacco is rolled into the best possible end product

Don't play with my impressionable heart like that...