What about The Joker??Vaxx or no…

[Corylax18]

34 minutes ago, Bijan said:

Did you misspeak or do you mean the state should abort fetuses against the parents' wishes?

I was being entirely Facetious. I'm not advocating for euthanasia of the entire species. 

I know tone is tough to read, but I thought that would have been abundantly clear. 

 

[Bijan]

5 minutes ago, Corylax18 said:

I was being entirely Facetious. I'm not advocating for euthanasia of the entire species. 

I know tone is tough to read, but I thought that would have been abundantly clear. 

 

Thanks!

Nothing in the way it is written suggests you were being facetious, except the fact that the statement is ridiculous.

Generally a good idea to add an emoji to a statement that is literally questionable but sarcastic or hyperbolic. Something like 🙄

[MrBirdman]

18 hours ago, Ken Gargett said:

i thought that the US Supreme Court had declared that vaccinations can be made mandatory - this was ages ago, not re covid. 

all linked, to a degree, to their view - his right to swing his fist stops at your nose. 

That was for smallpox, they allowed restrictions not requiring vaccinations, and in any case the Supreme Court has changed a bit since then. The current court has given religion a MFN clause so that alone would stop vaccine mandates for the Christian Scientists etc. 

[PigFish]

On 10/20/2021 at 2:52 PM, Ken Gargett said:

i've no idea where you are from. let's say the US, but insert whatever country is appropriate.

now say that the US (or whatever country) has established certain rules and regulations pertaining to their country - don't have to be about covid. could be anything. you are telling me that if an aussie (or again, someone from another country) said, i don't accept your laws. i am coming to your country and i expect you to allow me to ignore those rules and for there to be no consequences, that you or the rest of your country would be okay with that? good luck. 

i like djokovic and he is obviously a great tennis player but if he has a problem with the rules and laws of our country, then he has two choices. and i will not lose a second's sleep if he never comes here again. 

US is doing this now. Boarder wide open, masks on kids, pressing mandates on just about everyone except illegal border invaders, not tested, not vaxed imported into the heartland on midnight flights and busses. Politics first, same as  always.

want a litmus test? No welfare check unless you are vaxed. When the government mandates that I will finally believe vax mandates are about public safety! If ones income is dependent on vax status, how come not the taxpayer supported?? Any guess why not?

[Fuzz]

16 hours ago, Corylax18 said:

I'm not advocating for euthanasia of the entire species. 

 

I'd actually advocate that. We're doing a shit job running the planet.

[MrBirdman]

8 hours ago, PigFish said:

If ones income is dependent on vax status, how come not the taxpayer supported??

I absolutely would support that policy, and I would include things like access to public schooling. I would also support financial incentives for Medicare-eligible people. 

[Bijan]

9 hours ago, MrBirdman said:

I absolutely would support that policy, and I would include things like access to public schooling. I would also support financial incentives for Medicare-eligible people. 

Australia has something like that to get parents to vaccinate their children:

https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2015/05/07/financial-incentives-for-childhood-immunisation-in-australia/

[El Presidente]

3 minutes ago, Bijan said:

Australia has something like that to get parents to vaccinate their children:

https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2015/05/07/financial-incentives-for-childhood-immunisation-in-australia/

No Jab No Pay is an Australian policy initiative which withholds three state payments – Child Care Benefit, the Child Care Rebate and a portion of the fortnightly Family Tax Benefit part A per child – for parents of children under 20 years of age who are not fully immunised or on a recognised catch-up schedule.[1] No Jab No Play is a related policy that disallows unvaccinated children from attending preschool and childcare centres, and imposes fines on childcare centres that admit unvaccinated children.[2][3] The system allows exemptions for children who cannot be safely vaccinated for medical reasons.

[Fuzz]

Once again, Australia bends the rules for those oh so important sports players. Unvaccinated players will now be allowed to enter Australia and play, after completing 2 weeks quarantine.

[MrBirdman]

5 hours ago, clint said:

Do you have any scientific data to back up these claims or are you just parroting media and government talking points?

Data for what? That breakthrough infections happen? 

[JohnInCleveland]

7 hours ago, clint said:

Do you have any scientific data to back up these claims or are you just parroting media and government talking points?

https://www.google.com/search?q=how much does the vaccine cut dowm on covid death&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b-1-m
 

https://www.gavi.org/vaccineswork/mounting-evidence-suggests-covid-vaccines-do-reduce-transmission-how-does-work

[Ken Gargett]

7 hours ago, clint said:

Do you have any scientific data to back up these claims or are you just parroting media and government talking points?

it would appear that your challenge has been taken up.

now, on the other hand, do you have any scientific evidence to contradict the claims or are you just parroting the anti-vax mob? 

[Ken Gargett]

6 hours ago, clint said:

All I see are baseless claims, fancy charts,  and terms like "evidence suggests",  "vaccinations are likely to reduce",  or "could prevent"  etc.   

Evidence should be required by those that are making positive claims about something.    If you do some research (may I suggest sources other than GAVI or the CBC lmao!)  you will find that while "virus" particles are found in secretions of sick people it has NEVER been proven that  "viruses" are the CAUSE of any illness.

Facts:  The SARS Cov2 virus has never been isolated and neither has the so called "Delta Variant" , all they have are computer models. Nor have they satisfied the requirements to prove transmissibility.   The PCR test doesn't test for illness, it simply tests for the presence of genetic material, and when cycled over a certain threshold can find anything you want.  Since the start testing has been done using many times more than the recommended number of cycles, rendering any findings absolutely useless.

I understand that there is no changing anyone's mind about this issue,  that's why it's pointless in even commenting on it.   It's just super baffling to me that most people still believe that what we have been experiencing and have yet to experience (because it's going to get much worse), has been about a virus.  

When did everyone start putting so much faith in the government and the media?  It used to be (before a couple of years ago) that it was common knowledge that they were all full of shite.  Next thing you know people will be starting to put their trust in lawyers,  and God forbid, maybe even retired lawyers. 😛

"it has NEVER been proven that  "viruses" are the CAUSE of any illness". 

thought that a bit interesting so went to the Mayo Clinic site. took about two seconds research to find "viruses cause a multitude of diseases ranging from the common cold to AIDS". 

well, just in case you are right and all of their experts and scientists are wrong (stranger things, although i doubt it), tried the harvard medical sites. seems that they have a bit more in common with the Mayo Clinic than your claims. actually they have enough stuff on all this that you could spend days reading it. not a shred supports anything you have said. 

you might think that it is pointless commenting on it but that certainly has not stopped you. 

"The SARS Cov2 virus has never been isolated". i am not a scientist and i honestly would not have a clue, but it really did not take long to establish that reuters (there are plenty of others but life is too short) have done the fact checking on that and apparently they would not be in agreement with you. apparently, like so much, this is coming from what might be termed the less sane sector of the anti-vaxx mob. plenty of other reputable sites have all manner of info on this - it was isolated in a number of countries as early as Jan 20. 

no disrespect but you've made a number of claims and it has taken barely any time at all to prove them rubbish. i might give up now and go to bed, but one last thing - "Evidence should be required by those that are making positive claims about something". sure, but are you suggesting then that those making negative claims don't have to provide just as much evidence? that is, as you well know, complete nonsense, but it is an easy argument for the anti-vaxx mob to run. then they can try and escape without actually providing any proof to any of their baseless claims. 

 

6 hours ago, clint said:

All I see are baseless claims, fancy charts,  and terms like "evidence suggests",  "vaccinations are likely to reduce",  or "could prevent"  etc.   

Evidence should be required by those that are making positive claims about something.    If you do some research (may I suggest sources other than GAVI or the CBC lmao!)  you will find that while "virus" particles are found in secretions of sick people it has NEVER been proven that  "viruses" are the CAUSE of any illness.

Facts:  The SARS Cov2 virus has never been isolated and neither has the so called "Delta Variant" , all they have are computer models. Nor have they satisfied the requirements to prove transmissibility.   The PCR test doesn't test for illness, it simply tests for the presence of genetic material, and when cycled over a certain threshold can find anything you want.  Since the start testing has been done using many times more than the recommended number of cycles, rendering any findings absolutely useless.

I understand that there is no changing anyone's mind about this issue,  that's why it's pointless in even commenting on it.   It's just super baffling to me that most people still believe that what we have been experiencing and have yet to experience (because it's going to get much worse), has been about a virus.  

When did everyone start putting so much faith in the government and the media?  It used to be (before a couple of years ago) that it was common knowledge that they were all full of shite.  Next thing you know people will be starting to put their trust in lawyers,  and God forbid, maybe even retired lawyers. 😛

sorry, one last point. if it is not about a virus then what is it about? 

[MrBirdman]

3 hours ago, clint said:

it has NEVER been proven that  "viruses" are the CAUSE of any illness.

This is simply untrue. The “germ theory of disease” has had strong evidence since Pasteur and is now arguably the most well-supported scientific theory in existence (unless you count “the sun is a ball of hot gas and not Apollo’s chariot wheel.”) The only competing explanation, the “miasma” theory, has had no proponents since the 19th century. 

If viruses don’t make people sick then tell me, what causes the flu? Negative thoughts? Gay people? 

[Fosgate]

I lost 3 friends to suicide during the lockdowns, went to 2 funerals in the last two months of people that both died 2 weeks after getting the poke. Currently I have a close friend that all 5 of his family members had the poke just two months ago and all five tested positive just 2 weeks ago are just finishing their self quarantine. I have yet to know of any friend, associate, relative or former that has died of COVID. With that, I had taken the Moderna poke back last March to get a surgery done. Based on my own personal experience and observations, I will not take another booster or whatever they are promising that you need to go back to "normal". Think what you will. I personally do not feel it is legitimately about safety anymore so much as it is about establishing control and subjugation of people to the powers that be.  

[Hammer Smokin']

the price of cuban cigars will be dropping before covid goes away. 

might as well just get used to it. 

[Bijan]

45 minutes ago, Fosgate said:

Think what you will. I personally do not feel it is legitimately about safety anymore so much as it is about establishing control and subjugation of people to the powers that be.  

I don't quite agree that it's all a sham but I do agree that at this point it's quite a political force unrelated to safety and a lot of fear mongering is going on.

Someone said that COVID is now to people on the left what 9/11 was to people on the right.

Hopefully I haven't gone too far off topic into US politics...

[JohnInCleveland]

9 hours ago, clint said:

All I see are baseless claims, fancy charts,  and terms like "evidence suggests",  "vaccinations are likely to reduce",  or "could prevent"  etc.   

Evidence should be required by those that are making positive claims about something.    If you do some research (may I suggest sources other than GAVI or the CBC lmao!)  you will find that while "virus" particles are found in secretions of sick people it has NEVER been proven that  "viruses" are the CAUSE of any illness.

Facts:  The SARS Cov2 virus has never been isolated and neither has the so called "Delta Variant" , all they have are computer models. Nor have they satisfied the requirements to prove transmissibility.   The PCR test doesn't test for illness, it simply tests for the presence of genetic material, and when cycled over a certain threshold can find anything you want.  Since the start testing has been done using many times more than the recommended number of cycles, rendering any findings absolutely useless.

I understand that there is no changing anyone's mind about this issue,  that's why it's pointless in even commenting on it.   It's just super baffling to me that most people still believe that what we have been experiencing and have yet to experience (because it's going to get much worse), has been about a virus.  

When did everyone start putting so much faith in the government and the media?  It used to be (before a couple of years ago) that it was common knowledge that they were all full of shite.  Next thing you know people will be starting to put their trust in lawyers,  and God forbid, maybe even retired lawyers. 😛

I don’t trust the government.  
 

I asked my doctor friends if they got the vaccine.  To a person, every single one of them did, as did their family members.  
 

Im not a rocket scientist.  I take the advice and counsel of the smartest and most accomplished people around me.  It’s worked out a lot better than trusting Facebook posts by my drunk uncle.  

[El Presidente]

I have close mates who are alfoil hat wearing conspiracy theorists. 

Love them. 

They are wrong.....but I still love them 

[Ken Gargett]

7 hours ago, clint said:

All you have to do is look around and pay attention to see what this is all about.

I would argue that the "authorities" you are putting faith in, and that we all have been for years now may not be as benign as we thought.   If you truly believe that it's the government's job to keep you safe, the media's job to tell you the truth, and that it's in pharma's best interest to make and keep you healthy then I shall say a prayer for you.

There are plenty of doctor's, virologists, and other esteemed scientists speaking out about what is happening but unfortunately the people you put so much trust in are quite busy censoring and or defaming them.

To question what is happening involves questioning your entire world view and sense of discernment.  I understand it's very difficult like any paradigm shift is , that's why I don't expect the majority of people to even try.  Sooner or later though if egos aren't checked and enough people don't wake up you will be wondering how we ever ended up in the totalitarian state we are headed for.  But I guess for some that is just where they want to be.

you'll have to forgive me - the tin hat is in the washing and i rented the underground bunker in the woods to nurse ratchett for the week. 

why is it that people with whom one disagrees so often insist on defining your position as what they want it to be for their arguments, rather than what it might be in reality?

the authorities you are putting faith in? what authorities would those be? like john S, i have spoken to endless doctors and scientists and like john, to a man...  i have several in the family and plenty more as mates. as i have said many, many times, in queensland we have a bunch of dimwits who are dumber than toenails and yet you decide i am putting my faith in them? based on no evidence whatsoever other than that it suits you. 

"If you truly believe that it's the government's job to keep you safe, the media's job to tell you the truth, and that it's in pharma's best interest to make and keep you healthy". where on earth did this come from? as usual, if you have no evidence or no logical argument, make something up. if you'd ever bothered to read anything i have ever written on the subject, you'd know full well just how little i respect govts and politicians. now, to be fair, no reason that you should have read anything i have written, but in that case, don't just lump me in with some concocted group that suits your purposes. as for pharma and the media, same thing. add banks, insurance companies, lobby groups, the church, the NRA, politicians, all sides of the environmental debate and a great many more. anyone who does not realise that they all have their own agendas gets what they deserve. 

that does not mean i think that this is all some giant conspiracy from govts all around the world who have decided to poison millions of people. i know you don't believe that viruses cause any harm - for me, that sits alongside the earth is flat and the moon landing was faked - but do you want to explain the five million deaths around the world, 760,000 of them in the US? or are these made up? lot of families and friends would love to think you are right. unfortunately, reality does not work that way.

govts trying to get more power and control. seriously? that ranks alongside the sun will come up tomorrow. when have they not? sure, this virus might have given them another good chance to do just that - we have seen that with our muppet here - but it does not mean the deaths are not real and that this is about stopping or limiting the virus. 

i accept we have different positions on this and that is fine, as rob says, he has mates who are wrong but still loves them. same for me. i differ on many things with friends but it does not mean we stop being friends. one of my oldest and closest mates, we are incredibly close on almost every topic you could name. except two and they are major issues and we could not be further apart. always will be. but he will always be one of my very closest friends.

but with respect, your contributions to this thread have been absolutely classic anti-vaxx nonsense. textbook. and if that is your position, fair enough. but you can expect some disagreement. your first post was to demand proof from someone who had posted a view contrary to yours. fair enough. when it was provided, you dismissed it.again, fair enough. but when asked for proof of your position, you came up with some bizarre idea about proof needing to come from the one side and then made a number of statements about covid which you claimed to be fact. and diverted into an attack on the govt. (on that, you have made the claim about conspiracies etc, so perhaps, by your own logical, you'll be so kind as to provide proof/evidence?).

when your statements were shown to be nonsense, there was not the slightest attempt by you to defend them. you knew full well that they were rubbish but the MO is to throw out these false claims. someone might believe. then we go full swing into the conspiracy mode and start allocating people into the groups you find most convenient. then we have the patronising garbage about how i need to question my entire world view and you understand how difficult that is. what utter and complete arrogant tosh. textbook anti-vax approach. please don't waste my time. 

 

[Chas.Alpha]

9 minutes ago, Ken Gargett said:

 

when your statements were shown to be nonsense, there was not the slightest attempt by you to defend them. you knew full well that they were rubbish but the MO is to throw out these false claims. someone might believe. 

 

This definitely crosses the line into forbidden topics, but did you know that better than 78% of half of the U.S. population believes that the last national election was "stolen?" Seriously, no evidence. No tangible proof, just the ravings of a sore loser. 1/3rd of this population believes ANYTHING that they're told by the politicians and media that they claim they don't trust.

Sobering, and I am vehemently anti-sobriety... 

A side note: I will be attending my aunt Betty's funeral next weekend. She was 90, complications from COVID.

[Ken Gargett]

2 minutes ago, Chas.Alpha said:

This definitely crosses the line into forbidden topics, but did you know that better than 78% of half of the U.S. population believes that the last national election was "stolen?" Seriously, no evidence. No tangible proof, just the ravings of a sore loser. 1/3rd of this population believes ANYTHING that they're told by the politicians and media that they claim they don't trust.

Sobering, and I am vehemently anti-sobriety... 

A side note: I will be attending my aunt Betty's funeral next weekend. She was 90, complications from COVID.

personally, not meaning to cross into fobidden topics - the problem is that some topics are simply worldwide but get seen from national perspectives. plenty of anti-vaxxers here and in many countries. my issue was simply that statements were made which were demonstrably false and were thrown out there as distractions or to perhaps have some actually believe them. i'll leave the US reference well alone.

very sorry to hear about your aunt. 

[Chas.Alpha]

3 minutes ago, Ken Gargett said:

 my issue was simply that statements were made which were demonstrably false and were thrown out there as distractions or to perhaps have some actually believe them. 

That's where I was headed with it. With social media, I can claim that I am the 2nd coming of Christ and with enough "followers", there is an amount of people that will believe it. Please save your opinion until I get 5 of 5 on the blind tasting competition, or at least until a pick a perfect week on FOHNFL2021!

[Fuzz]

41 minutes ago, Chas.Alpha said:

That's where I was headed with it. With social media, I can claim that I am the 2nd coming of Christ and with enough "followers", there is an amount of people that will believe it. Please save your opinion until I get 5 of 5 on the blind tasting competition, or at least until a pick a perfect week on FOHNFL2021!

I'll have you know that the 2nd Coming has already arrived. The Greek Jesus @JohnS is here!! Follow his gospel of cigars & champagne for all!!

[Ken Gargett]

4 minutes ago, Fuzz said:

I'll have you know that the 2nd Coming has already arrived. The Greek Jesus @JohnS is here!! Follow his gospel of cigars & champagne for all!!

its not bruce?