Por Larranaga Petit Corona - LGR Nov 18 (VVRW#2)

[RichG]

This is maybe the fifth cigar I have smoked from this box. Upon receiving it in December I was happy to see the box date, but less thrilled by the strong ammonia smell. In the subsequent few months the smell in the box has become more tame, but there are still hints of it present.

The appearance and feel of this cigar is very toothy.

The first third was strong caramel on the draw, but bitter with occasional hints of ammonia on the retro. 

From the second third on, the bitter ammonia qualities died down, but unfortunately so did the caramel. 

While the second and third were pleasant, they consisted mostly of a one-note woody, coffee cream character. 

I would give this a 6.5/10, which I presume will improve with age. 

I am thinking I should forget this box exists for quite some time?

[Mrcpt]

Great review. I just got my first cab of these, so I may break one out in a couple months, but I’ve read everywhere they seriously shine at five years or so.. so I’ll be forgetting about the cab for a while as well. 

[Bijan]

Great review. I'm smoking a 2008 for review right now and I'm getting a fair bit of bitterness. I get some caramel if I retrohale slowly (though not that sweet) but a fair bit of bitterness on the tongue.

[RichG]

7 minutes ago, Bijan said:

Great review. I'm smoking a 2008 for review right now and I'm getting a fair bit of bitterness. I get some caramel if I retrohale slowly (though not that sweet) but a fair bit of bitterness on the tongue.

That is very interesting that you get slight caramel on the retro, while I was getting big caramel on the draw. I look forward to your final assessment. 

[Kaptain Karl]

I’m getting a lot of ammonia off of my sep 17 box right now. Too bad to hear it wasn’t ready!!

[Bijan]

7 minutes ago, RichG-LI-NY said:

That is very interesting that you get slight caramel on the retro, while I was getting big caramel on the draw. I look forward to your final assessment. 

I also have an LGR NOV 18 box. I'll try to review one of those too.

[Enduin]

8 hours ago, Kaptain Karl said:

I’m getting a lot of ammonia off of my sep 17 box right now. Too bad to hear it wasn’t ready!!

 

Is it just me or ammonia from a 4 year old box sounds really weird? I get ammonia from very young cigars, but 4 years? I would imagine the ammonia would have been long gone...

To be clear it's not that I doubt your taste, I wonder what was done (or rather not done) at the factory to result in such a long lasting ammonia presence. 

[Bijan]

18 minutes ago, Enduin said:

 

Is it just me or ammonia from a 4 year old box sounds really weird? I get ammonia from very young cigars, but 4 years? I would imagine the ammonia would have been long gone...

To be clear it's not that I doubt your taste, I wonder what was done (or rather not done) at the factory to result in such a long lasting ammonia presence. 

Would be underfermentation or improper fermentation. This is what happened with the dreaded BRE NOV 18 Connie 1s.

It could also be from fermentation occuring in storage and would hopefully pass a so called sick period.

[Enduin]

interesting. I was out of the loop in 2018, didn't know about those Connie 1s. Did they all have the ammonia note?

 

[Bijan]

21 minutes ago, Enduin said:

interesting. I was out of the loop in 2018, didn't know about those Connie 1s. Did they all have the ammonia note?

 

Not all. Tons of people have ok ones. But certain boxes came with an ammonia smell/taste. I guess it was a bad batch of underfermentated tobacco that went into a series of boxes.

[Enduin]

Thanks, gotcha! I wonder if maybe some times they also send out cigars with no aging at all. Meaning the post rolling aging to marry the flavors, which I bet also allows the leftover ammonia from the fermentation to dissipate. 

[Bijan]

12 minutes ago, Enduin said:

Thanks, gotcha! I wonder if maybe some times they also send out cigars with no aging at all. Meaning the post rolling aging to marry the flavors, which I bet also allows the leftover ammonia from the fermentation to dissipate. 

That may or may not be the case but it should be gone from NOV 18 cigars by now (generally ammonia sick period when it was a common thing didn't ever last more than two years). So probably something wrong with the tobacco.

[Enduin]

So those Nov 18 Connie 1s are still smoking poorly today? That really sounds like something wrong with the tobacco!

[CaptainQuintero]

  Interesting point re ammonia, I haven't ran into.. it I think ever, even in fresh Cazadorez. Ammonia in a 2018 box now also raises a few eyebrows

  What's your storage conditions?

[RichG]

14 minutes ago, CaptainQuintero said:

  Interesting point re ammonia, I haven't ran into.. it I think ever, even in fresh Cazadorez. Ammonia in a 2018 box now also raises a few eyebrows

  What's your storage conditions?

This box is stored at approx. 65/65. As I mentioned, this ammonia was prevalent from receipt of the box in December. It has died down a bit, but definitely still exists. Of the handful I have smoked only one or two have been free of it during smoking. I am going to sample one every six months or so and see if they get better.

[CaptainQuintero]

1 hour ago, RichG-LI-NY said:

This box is stored at approx. 65/65. As I mentioned, this ammonia was prevalent from receipt of the box in December. It has died down a bit, but definitely still exists. Of the handful I have smoked only one or two have been free of it during smoking. I am going to sample one every six months or so and see if they get better.

 If you have a separate desktop etc it might be worth storing them loose in that for a few months too

[Kaptain Karl]

17 hours ago, Bijan said:

Would be underfermentation or improper fermentation. This is what happened with the dreaded BRE NOV 18 Connie 1s.

It could also be from fermentation occuring in storage and would hopefully pass a so called sick period.

Yup...my box has been in a sick period for awhile now. 50/50 good or awful cigar. I think a lot of mine have been in a sick period so I aired out my cooler for a day last week, seems to have helped. I think that’s one thing that happens with coolers is that they don’t breath like wood humidors so they can accumulate more ammonia. Can some more experienced people chime in to confirm or tell me I’m an idiot?

6 hours ago, Enduin said:

So those Nov 18 Connie 1s are still smoking poorly today? That really sounds like something wrong with the tobacco!

Nope my box has been good! I agree with @Bijan, that code had under-fermented tobacco that needed more time to even out. 

[Enduin]

Just now, Kaptain Karl said:

Nope my box has been good! I agree with @Bijan, that code had under-fermented tobacco that needed more time to even out. 

So you box of 2018 Connie 1 started out crappy and now is good?

[Kaptain Karl]

Just now, Enduin said:

So you box of 2018 Connie 1 started out crappy and now is good?

I had 2 actually. The first I basically gave away, sucked. The second had 18 months on it when it arrived and the 5 I’ve smoked have been good to great. Huge difference. I think they just needed much more rest than your average Connie 1. 

[Enduin]

Gotcha. Yeah really sounds like under-fermented or under-aged tobacco. 

[Bijan]

10 minutes ago, Kaptain Karl said:

I think a lot of mine have been in a sick period so I aired out my cooler for a day last week, seems to have helped. I think that’s one thing that happens with coolers is that they don’t breath like wood humidors so they can accumulate more ammonia. Can some more experienced people chime in to confirm or tell me I’m an idiot?

Haven't been in the cooler game long enough to say but some people store boxes vacuum sealed and ammonia doesn't seem to be a problem.

Also I've had it where I overdid it with the cigars last year and I got ammonia and limited flavours on everything.

 

[Enduin]

I have a feeling that the ammonia problem requires time to be fixed more than it requires airing out... 

[Kaptain Karl]

1 hour ago, Enduin said:

I have a feeling that the ammonia problem requires time to be fixed more than it requires airing out... 

I know that in terms of general boxes. What I was saying was the cooler itself accumulating ammonia as fresh cigars release it and it has nowhere to go. It’s just a thought, not rooted in science or anything! 

[Enduin]

That makes two of us (meaning a thought not rooted in science) LOL. What I was thinking is that if ammonia in cigars needed ventilation to dissipate, as opposed to some other forms of decomposition, I would expect cigars in tubos to be a lot more susceptible to the ammonia problem, and sealed boxes in general to be more susceptible than singles. Yet, I haven't had this experience personally, nor I have read of people connecting a more sealed storage of cigars (tubos or sealed boxes) to a higher incidence of ammonia in cigars... This leads me to believe that ventilation might not be the biggest factor and that something else might be at play, which simply requires time. 

[RichG]

Is oxygen required to progress the chemical reactions in decomposition? Sealed cooler would lack the oxygen content of a less sealed system. I ask this knowing nothing about chemistry.