U.S. restricts travel, remittances to Cuba as part of a new policy

[Fuzz]

On 4/18/2019 at 9:32 PM, NYgarman said:

Khashoggi was NOT a US citizen despite living here and working for the Wash Post. He wasn't wacked on US soil. He rolled the dice and spoke out against his Saudi government and lost. Why should the Trump admin nor any of us US citizens care?

Russian agents whacked a former Russian military officer and UK double agent in the UK (also poisoning his daughter). Neither were US citizens, worked in the USA, nor was the act committed on US soil. Nonetheless, the US govt spoke out about the assassination and agreed to impose sanctions on Russia (though they never went through). 60 Russian diplomats were expelled as a result (and vice versa).

Now, April Corley on the other hand, is a US citizen who was nearly killed on holiday in Egypt. The Egyptian military attacked the tourist bus she was in whilst it traversed the Egyptian Western Desert (strafed by chain gun and rockets, from Egyptian Apache helicopters), even though the tourist bus had permits to travel through the area, and was clearly marked as a tourist bus. Th Egyptian govt has never really admitted fault, and offered $150k as compensation, despite the grievous injuries and ongoing medical costs April will have to endure for the rest of her life. The US govt has not imposed any sanctions on the Egyptian govt apart from a few senators tut-tutting.

The US govt (just like any govt) will do only what is in their best interest.

 

[nKostyan]

Russian agents whacked a former Russian military officer and UK double agent in the UK (also poisoning his daughter). Neither were US citizens, worked in the USA, nor was the act committed on US soil. Nonetheless, the US govt spoke out about the assassination and agreed to impose sanctions on Russia (though they never went through). 60 Russian diplomats were expelled as a result (and vice versa).
Now, April Corley on the other hand, is a US citizen who was nearly killed on holiday in Egypt. The Egyptian military attacked the tourist bus she was whilst it traversed the Egyptian Western Desert (strafed by chain gun and rockets, from Egyptian Apache helicopters), even though the tourist bus had permits to travel through the area, and was clearly marked as a tourist bus. Th Egyptian govt has never really admitted fault, and offered $150k as compensation, despite the grievous injuries and ongoing medical costs April will have to endure for the rest of her life. The US govt has not imposed any sanctions on the Egyptian govt apart from a few senators tut-tutting.
The US govt (just like any govt) will do only what is in their best interest.
 

It's called politics. If you have the desire, there is always a reason.

[Corylax18]

2 hours ago, NYgarman said:

Khashoggi was NOT a US citizen despite living here and working for the Wash Post. He wasn't wacked on US soil. He rolled the dice and spoke out against his Saudi government and lost. Why should the Trump admin nor any of us US citizens care?

No Cubans are U.S. Citizens, Raul doesn't kill or torture any Cubans on U.S. Soil. Cubans rolled the dice, elected a dictator and lost. Why should the Trump admin or any of us US citizens care?

[SCgarman]

2 minutes ago, Corylax18 said:

No Cubans are U.S. Citizens, Raul doesn't kill or torture any Cubans on U.S. Soil. Cubans rolled the dice, elected a dictator and lost. Why should the Trump admin or any of us US citizens care?

Cubans "elected" their dictator? Go back and read your history young man. ?

 

[Ethernut]

20 minutes ago, NYgarman said:

Cubans "elected" their dictator? Go back and read your history young man. ?

 

 

24 minutes ago, Corylax18 said:

No Cubans are U.S. Citizens, Raul doesn't kill or torture any Cubans on U.S. Soil. Cubans rolled the dice, elected a dictator and lost. Why should the Trump admin or any of us US citizens care?

 

Easy now good Gents.. @Corylax18 knows the history well and is probably very nearly one of the most traveled in Cuba of all of us here. His work choice of "elected" was simply pejorative. 

Situation is frustrating though. It does create fear here for Americans that don't understand how things work. We had a family Support for the Cuban People trip planned for October that the timid in my group just bailed from yesterday even after I told them we should wait and see what happens. Instant desired effect.

 

 

[MountainMilG]

Welp, now I need to get there posthaste.  With a possible move from ATL to SEA, I'm never going to be closer anyway

[helix]

Like before, fly in from another country. Cuban customs will be accommodating and won't stamp a US passport.

[Corylax18]

2 hours ago, NYgarman said:

Cubans "elected" their dictator? Go back and read your history young man. ?

 

Fair Enough. Election is a generous description, fine. But He WAS supported nearly Unanimously by the Cuban people. People always seem to forget that, or where never taught so in the first place. I'm really glad you brought this up though. Lets talk a little bit about how Fidel came to power and more importantly WHY he was able to.

Fulgencio Batista, Mob funded dictator, was the worst human being Cubans had ever seen and they were happy for ANYBODY to take his place. Batista, stole, murdered, and pillaged at a rate that would make the Castros blush. All under the watchful eye and support of the US government and Mafia. 

Bautista Bombed the Serrie Meastra day and night for months, sent 10s of thousands of troops to find the band of a few dozen defectors at Comendancia de la Plata, but the people in that area continued to hide the group and supply them. The big breaking point was when an entire regiment of Batista's army defected. Which lead to Batista Fleeing and Fidel's infamous 550 mile, week long Victory Parade across the island. People were cheering in the streets along the entire route.

Fidel and his Supporters ousted a US backed dictator. The chances of our relationship being a good one where doomed from the start. But Cuban citizens supported Fidel and his ideas for most of the 50s into the early 60s. I think we can all agree things started to leave the rails around that point. 

The US didn't stop supporting Fidel because he was doing the exact same thing as the last guy, don't fool yourself. The US stopped supporting Fidel because he stopped giving us our cut. Plain and simple. 

I don't view this as a political issue at all. Its not democrat or republican, its not one country verse another. There is a true humanitarian crisis happening 90 miles from our country and its getting worse daily. Every president and every congress has done a Terrible job of improving the situation for the last 60 years. We can argue which side has done worse (not here) but they've both done about as poorly as anybody could imagine. 

[clutch5150]

...And for Florida votes let's not forget.

[Corylax18]

8 hours ago, Ethernut said:

Easy now good Gents.. @Corylax18 knows the history well and is probably very nearly one of the most traveled in Cuba of all of us here. His work choice of "elected" was simply pejorative. 

Situation is frustrating though. It does create fear here for Americans that don't understand how things work. We had a family Support for the Cuban People trip planned for October that the timid in my group just bailed from yesterday even after I told them we should wait and see what happens. Instant desired effect.

There was no good "reaction" for this. It sucks that October is off the table now. I agree with you. It will still be perfectly feasible for the experienced travel to keep traveling to Cuba through Canada or Mexico, but it will definitely scare off your average tourist.

8 hours ago, MountainMilG said:

Welp, now I need to get there posthaste.  With a possible move from ATL to SEA, I'm never going to be closer anyway

Do it before May 2nd. Otherwise, it may be just as difficult as before. 

We'll see how or if this is enforced though. OFAC still hasn't grown in size(that I could find), so that still means about 200 total government employees overseeing enforcement of ALL of the US's financial embargoes worldwide. I don't know the exact count, but it wouldn't be unrealistic to think we have some sort of embargo on more than 200 countries ? so to say they are already overworked would be an understatement. 

Unless Customs or Immigration are somehow involved through new or modified legislation, it may still be as easy as it was. Those guys don't have anything to do right now either, ? so we may be just fine.

[SOFLO88]

17 minutes ago, Corylax18 said:

Do it before May 2nd. Otherwise, it may be just as difficult as before. 

We'll see how or if this is enforced though. OFAC still hasn't grown in size(that I could find), so that still means about 200 total government employees overseeing enforcement of ALL of the US's financial embargoes worldwide. I don't know the exact count, but it wouldn't be unrealistic to think we have some sort of embargo on more than 200 countries ? so to say they are already overworked would be an understatement. 

Unless Customs or Immigration are somehow involved through new or modified legislation, it may still be as easy as it was. Those guys don't have anything to do right now either, ? so we may be just fine.

I know they havent given detail on it, but you think they will no longer allow travel like it is currently after May 2nd even if we've already been booked?

Back in 2017, when they were making changes, they said if you had already set your travel a certain way, you were basically grandfathered in which applied to me. Im hoping the same will happen this time around for us who already booked flights and airbnb.

[Corylax18]

Just now, SOFLO88 said:

I know they havent given detail on it, but you think they will no longer allow travel like it is currently after May 2nd even if we've already been booked?

Back in 2017, when they were making changes, they said if you had already set your travel a certain way, you were basically grandfathered in which applied to me. Im hoping the same will happen this time around for us who already booked flights and airbnb.

I have No Clue how it will all turn out. I am leaning towards (51%-49%) that things wont change drastically. But this is based on no additional funding or resources for enforcement being announced. If more manpower or $$ are thrown at enforcing the new rules(same as the old rules) we may see more noticeable changes. 

I'm almost certain that some airlines will lower frequencies or out right stop flying some routes. That market never panned out like the big airlines were hoping. 

[kevpro]

7 hours ago, SOFLO88 said:

I know they havent given detail on it, but you think they will no longer allow travel like it is currently after May 2nd even if we've already been booked?

Back in 2017, when they were making changes, they said if you had already set your travel a certain way, you were basically grandfathered in which applied to me. Im hoping the same will happen this time around for us who already booked flights and airbnb.

What does May 2nd represent? I haven't been able to find any information on when official details will be released or policies implemented.

7 hours ago, Corylax18 said:

I'm almost certain that some airlines will lower frequencies or out right stop flying some routes. That market never panned out like the big airlines were hoping. 

Flight cancellations due to low traffic is my largest concern right now. At least the airlines should refund for cancellations. I don't know how it will work if the flight still goes but certain passengers are no longer allowed. 

[bmf30180]

39 minutes ago, clutch5150 said:

...And for Florida votes let's not forget.

This!!!    And perhaps only this if the truth were told.  Things will return to some sort of normalcy beginning in 2021, regardless of who wins.

[HDGSN]

4 hours ago, NYgarman said:

Khashoggi was NOT a US citizen despite living here and working for the Wash Post. He wasn't wacked on US soil. He rolled the dice and spoke out against his Saudi government and lost. Why should the Trump admin nor any of us US citizens care?

Because he was a US Permanent Resident working in the US for a US company and the US Government intercepted communications about his torture and death and let him walk into it anyway then played along with the SA in its various levels of initial spin?

[bmf30180]

I may just try and buy a ticket for a future date, then plan.  Hoping I am grandfathered in.  Worst case, I get a refund on my plane ticket.  Best case, nothing changes and I've convinced my wife I have to go again because I've already bought the ticket.

[Nino]

12 minutes ago, kevpro said:

Flight cancellations due to low traffic is my largest concern right now. At least the airlines should refund for cancellations. I don't know how it will work if the flight still goes but certain passengers are no longer allowed. 

You can always fly from here ... Frankfurt Havana 3x times a week and Frankfurt Varadero another 3 times a week ?

Mostly full flights though ...

Seriously now - hope to see my US buddies in Havana late May. This is no good news for all involved.

[Corylax18]

14 minutes ago, kevpro said:

What does May 2nd represent? I haven't been able to find any information on when official details will be released or policies implemented. 

They announced in the speech that "the changes will take effect May 2nd" Its not clear if that's everything they announced or just the lapsing of the Helms-Burton act waiver which happens to occur on the 2nd. Like everything else they "changed", its not 100% clear. The travel changes may or may not take affect on that day as well. A lack of clarity certainly serves the administration, it alone is enough to scare most people from "taking the chance."

7 minutes ago, kevpro said:

Flight cancellations due to low traffic is my largest concern right now. At least the airlines should refund for cancellations. I don't know how it will work if the flight still goes but certain passengers are no longer allowed. 

Cuban Citizens or Expats have constituted 80% or more of the poepl on the flights I've taken to the island. That's regardless of the departure Airport. Be it Cancun, Newark, Houston, Tampa or Fort Lauderdale its predominantly family members. Those flights have never been 100% full though. 

[kevpro]

3 minutes ago, Corylax18 said:

They announced in the speech that "the changes will take effect May 2nd" Its not clear if that's everything they announced or just the lapsing of the Helms-Burton act waiver which happens to occur on the 2nd. Like everything else they "changed", its not 100% clear. The travel changes may or may not take affect on that day as well. A lack of clarity certainly serves the administration, it alone is enough to scare most people from "taking the chance."

Cuban Citizens or Expats have constituted 80% or more of the poepl on the flights I've taken to the island. That's regardless of the departure Airport. Be it Cancun, Newark, Houston, Tampa or Fort Lauderdale its predominantly family members. Those flights have never been 100% full though. 

Thanks for clarifying. Sounds like I'll just plan on going until I hear otherwise. 

[ElJavi76]

23 minutes ago, nino said:

You can always fly from here ... Frankfurt Havana 3x times a week and Frankfurt Varadero another 3 times a week ?

Mostly full flights though ...

Seriously now - hope to see my US buddies in Havana late May. This is no good news for all involved.

Let's plan to have have a smoke Niño. I'll be landing in Havana on 5/27. Hope to catch up.

Cheers

[SOFLO88]

I might change my flight to before May 2nd if they try and make that the deadline. Im hoping not though. I need more cigar money!

[Cohiba007]

I am supposed to fly to Havana May 2.  Following this very closely 

[Nino]

1 hour ago, ElJavi76 said:

Let's plan to have have a smoke Niño. I'll be landing in Havana on 5/27. Hope to catch up.

Cheers

Jajajaja ... I win, yo llego antes que tu ... sure,

Espacios again ? I reserve the table ?

And stop calling me Niño, I am still Mr Nino to you ?

 

[ac031898]

When the last round of changes were announced, it took OFAC quite a while to issue the updated rules. At the time I was booked on a cruise to Havana with family members - as I recall, it basically worked as follows:

• Anyone who had purchased travel (flights/boats/etc) prior to the announcement that changes were coming were grandfathered in if travel occurred after the new regulations were announced
• Prior rules were in place until OFAC announced the new rules, so if you decided to purchase travel after the announcement, your travel was ok if you got it in before the rules were announced - although there was no clear timeline....travel at your own risk
• The big tourist industries (cruises, etc) had clearly been set up to serve in a loop-hole, and the new regulations probably helped sell more excursions since they 'officially' met the new regulations (easy choice for a typical cruise tourist)

Normally, I'd say based on recent history that if you already have travel purchased or intend to travel soon, you're probably ok...BUT recent US political climate shows us that you can't really count on things to happen as they normally used to anymore

[Ethernut]

43 minutes ago, nino said:

And stop calling me Niño, I am still Mr Nino to you ?

 

@ElJavi76 NINO is touchy about that.. I made the same mistake multiple times!

F YOU Nino! ?