CaptainQuintero Posted March 30, 2012 Posted March 30, 2012 A friend of mine runs a B&M in the UK and has been handed this list by H&F. Some news not new but some revisions. These are the lines that are being phased out or are now discontinued in the UK / new stock won't be imported due to changes in Cuba. Montecristo ********************* A - 25 Varnished Box Joyitas - 5 Card Pack Romoeo y Julieta ******************** Prince of wales - 25 Box Exhibition No4 - 50 SLB **Coronas - 25 Box Trinidad ******************** Funadores 50cab Funadores 5 packs Partagas ******************** 8-9-8 unvarnished - 25 Box Punch ******************** Coronas - 25 Box Tres Petit Corona - 25 Box Maragaritas - 25 Box Petit Punch - 25 Box Tubed Churchills - 25 Box H. Upmann ******************** (Now Gone)Coronas 25 Box (Now Gone)Corona JR (untubed) 25 Box (Now Gone)Corona JR (untubed) 5 Pack Magnum 46 - 3 pack Monarchs tubed - 25 Box (c/hill) Bolivar ******************** Inmensas - 25 Box **Lonsdale - 25 Box (Now Gone)Coronas - 25 Box (Now Gone)Bonitas - 25 Box Corona Giganties - 50 cab Petit Coronas - 50 cab Hoyo ******************** Double corona - 3 pack coronas - 25 Du Dauphin 25cab Du Roi - 25 cab Du Roi - 5 Pack Du Prince - 5 pack Du Depute - 5 Pack Cuaba ******************** Davinos - 5 Pack Generosos - 5 Pack Diplomaticos ******************** no 1 - 25 Box no 3 - 25 Box El Rey Del Mundo ******************** (Now Gone)Tainos - 25 Box Lonsdales - 25 Box **Coronas - 25 Box Tres Petit Corona - 25 Box Petit corona - 50 cab **Choix Supreme - 50 Cab Sancho Panza ******************** Sanchos - 10 Box Corona Giganties - 10 Box Belicosos - 50 cab Rafael Gonzalez ******************** Lonsdale - 25 Box Corona Extras - 25 Box Notes The ones marked with ** are new lines being phased out in 2012. The others had already been on the list.
CaptainQuintero Posted March 30, 2012 Author Posted March 30, 2012 No big losses there...The Boli Lonsdale is not new. It hasn't been around for a decade. Like it says at the top it's UK imports, we've been getting all of the above (things like the Boli lonsdale) regularly, most stores still have lots of stock of them. Same with Dip 1,3,4,5s etc Like the guy says this is what is happening in the UK but shows what is happening in Cuba eg the Partagas 898 imports being stopped, so it will most likely be on the next deletion list
canadianbeaver Posted March 30, 2012 Posted March 30, 2012 2 ?'s for you. 1. When companies delete cigars, do they generally launch a new one to keep their inventory active? 2. When cigars get deleted, provided they are kept in great condition, how long does it take for their value to increase if at all? 1 year? 5? 10? The reason I ask I recently saw a box of 2003 cigars add over $100 to the highest price I have seen on any Cuban seller on the net. The flames are already starting... Lisa
Tarks Posted March 30, 2012 Posted March 30, 2012 Like it says at the top it's UK imports, we've been getting all of the above (things like the Boli lonsdale) regularly, most stores still have lots of stock of them. Same with Dip 1,3,4,5s etc Like the guy says this is what is happening in the UK but shows what is happening in Cuba eg the Partagas 898 imports being stopped, so it will most likely be on the next deletion list Huh? The list shows the Partagas 898 UV. This cigar has been discontinued for 10 years. They are not talking about the 898V. The Boli lonsdale has been discontinued for 10 years. That means HSA has stopped producing them 10 years ago. Upmann Monarchs same thing. This looks like a list that has been added onto over the years. Nothing really new there.
Tarks Posted March 30, 2012 Posted March 30, 2012 I may not have been clear. I understand that H+F and the stores still have stock of older vintages. Same here with the B+Ms and Havana House. I meant that Cuba has not been exporting any Boli Lonsdales (for example) for a full decade now. Am I mistaken? My guess. It is possible that HSA still exports old stock to different regions of the world but I doubt it. It's more likely that the UK vendors just have old inventory that they have been selling over the past decade and now they are sold out and it is no longer available??? I dunno.
CaptainQuintero Posted March 30, 2012 Author Posted March 30, 2012 You have the same things to go on as I do, the video and attached list. It sounds like Cuba has still been exporting their existing stocks. What is happening now is Cuba has ran out and since nothing new has been made, no more will be shipped. It's probably fair to guess the deletions happened to cigars that distributors were not asking for, as they had lots of unsold stock still, HSA doesnt want to keep making cigars that dont sell and they already have/had warehouses full of these unwanted cigars so made the delete decision. Now that has filtered down eventually as the warehouses in Cuba have finally emptied? eg in a few years there will probably be a similar list passed down about the robusto T.
PigFish Posted March 31, 2012 Posted March 31, 2012 2 ?'s for you. 1. When companies delete cigars, do they generally launch a new one to keep their inventory active? 2. When cigars get deleted, provided they are kept in great condition, how long does it take for their value to increase if at all? 1 year? 5? 10? The reason I ask I recently saw a box of 2003 cigars add over $100 to the highest price I have seen on any Cuban seller on the net. The flames are already starting... Lisa As a child you ate maraschino cherries with ginger-ale and pretended it was a cocktail. You drank Nestle hot chocolate and ate Peeps for Easter. Do you enjoy the same tastes now as an adult or have you matured? Is cotton candy still the best stuff on earth, or would you prefer salmon, mushrooms, olives or roquefort cheese? Do peoples' tastes change? Moreover, do they mature? Did you start with a Dutch type dry cigar (as I did) and after a time find yourself a knowledgable connoisseur of a varietal tobacco from a single provenience? If yes, read on. Is there a possibility then that within the set, as in a set of cigars, there is a subset of superior cigars that one could claim after experiencing an entire spectrum of cigars that comprised the set? Would there be any set of rules that would potentially make a cigar, a brand of cigar, a provincial location where cigar components are grown or made, a cigar vitola, shape or size, or any other hint of difference that could lead you to a better or best cigar? Is a cigar's taste and taste performance attached to the retail cost of it? Is it that easy... to simply pay the most for a cigar in order for you to get the most out of a smoking experience? Is being a connoisseur that simple? Does one's smoking tastes mature over time, or with experience? As one samples the broad spectrum of available cigars, does he or she stay satisfied with their first choice of cigars, or do they begin to become discriminating? Are you discriminating? I cannot answer these questions for anyone other than myself. I can however share the experiences that I have, and add to them the thousands of comments and conversations that I have had with other mature, discriminating smokers over the decades. As a result of so many conversations and shared experiences, I am convinced that some smokers tastes mature as they experience a broad range of cigars over time, and that they do eventually begin to conclude many of the same things over this time. This is not a hard and fast rule... but I have known enough smokers to firmly believe in the theory myself. If you are a believer, you know exactly what I am talking about. If not, what I have to say should make no difference to you! So to directly answer, H SA et al, has affectively destroyed the ability for smokers to mature! In this, I am not saying that his is a unilateral, nor uniform maturation. It is anything but. It is individual and perhaps as stated, not even universal to all smokers. But by limiting choices H SA et al, is compelling you to be happy with whatever is trendy or simply stop smoking Cuban cigars. You will smoke what can be produced in the greatest quantities, the cigars that make up the peak of the Gaussian, the ones that make the highest profit margin, or you will not smoke at all!!! If you have come to conclude that the best cigars live outside of the high of the bell curve, you will no longer have the ability to search out and find the best cigars! A little food for thought! -Piggy
dB69 Posted March 31, 2012 Posted March 31, 2012 ^ Sir Piggy, you nailed it! Applause! Your argument is so very true that it should be sent to HSA, maybe they just haven't realized it themselves.
Styler Posted March 31, 2012 Posted March 31, 2012 Even though I've only been a cigar smoker for a couple of years, what PigFish is saying makes a lot a sense to me.
canadianbeaver Posted March 31, 2012 Posted March 31, 2012 But by limiting choices H SA et al, is compelling you to be happy with whatever is trendy or simply stop smoking Cuban cigars. ..... A long and thoughtful reply. Thank you as always, Pigfish.I am 99% you took my question as the legitimate concern and not the other side Lisa
Michel1968 Posted March 31, 2012 Posted March 31, 2012 Too bad there's little food for thought in PF's remark... It's an universal truth doing its destrutive business in a very wide spectrum of former 'authentic' products...
PigFish Posted March 31, 2012 Posted March 31, 2012 But by limiting choices H SA et al, is compelling you to be happy with whatever is trendy or simply stop smoking Cuban cigars. ..... A long and thoughtful reply. Thank you as always, Pigfish.I am 99% you took my question as the legitimate concern and not the other side Lisa All you need to do Lisa is read one of my dozens of scathing posts regarding deleting cigars and H SA, Tabacuba et al. Yes, I wholeheartedly agree with you. But you can see, at least from one poster above, that deletions are not that important to everyone, or at least to him. Why... because that poster is satisfied? Like everything else Cuban cigar, the question regarding deletions is subjective. It is not universally important that the Partagas Seleccion Privada is no longer made. In this newer group of active members here, I doubt that 10% has had one! It is not even a memory, it is unimportant. For many it is an easy economic answer. I argue that as well. The answer is not economic because there is tobacco left on the shelves to continue to make these cigars in small quantities for people like me! Rolling the lesser consumed cigars OVER THAT of the more common, can be recognized by even a fan of those cigar as an economic mistake. This is not what they do! The just delete them! They just intentionally force you into a product that you may not be 100% satisfied with, or abandon you as a client. Furthermore some of us think that the deleted cigars were actually the best in the catalogue. People who fiercely disagree on other topics even on this board often come together to discuss this common ground. Lastly, and this is a generalization and one that I cannot prove, the older the smoker, the more he or she has likely moved to a more limited range of cigars. After trying a whole lot, there does not seem to be much sense in smoking cigars that have disappointed you time and time again. Even if the cigars are the popular ones, most people would rather smoke a cigar that has a reputation for personal satisfaction. Why buy other less satisfying cigars, when you can concentrate on the ones that you know you like? I mean if two neighbors are having a BBQ on the same day and you are invited to both parties, why go to the one where there are screaming kids no others smoking cigars? Life is a matter of choices. When given two or more choices freely, you should typically choose the best one for you at the time. Typically here Lisa I just point out some pertinent facts, espouse some opinions, and call the folks at H SA et al a bunch of foul names. I don't change it up much, but this time I thought I would post something a little different! Nothing that I have said should lead anyone to believe other than: I think the foulest of thoughts about the management of the nationalist Cuban tobacco company. The Cuban cigar catalogue has gone to hell. The best cigars are gone and have been replaced largely with homogenous, mediocre products that demand a higher cost per gram of tobacco only because many people think that they get more out of a fat cigar!!! Cheers. -Piggy
khomeinist Posted March 31, 2012 Posted March 31, 2012 Nice posts Ray. Excellent food analogy. That is the problem with one supplier. Other entrepreneurs cannot come along and service the more sophisticated market. What has happened to El Rey, LGC, and Partagas (my favorites) is just so frustrating.
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