Differing Grades of Quality Habanos Cigars Shipped in the World

[smpf67]

Hello to all! This is a persistant question I have come across all the time. Can it be true, or is it just a rumor?

I have smoked Cuban cigars for around 16 years now, and have been puzzled by friends/colleagues/websites telling me Habanos S.A. ships different quality cigars to different parts of the world. For instance, Great Britain and Switzerland get only the best of the best quality cigars from Habanos S.A.. The quality then decreases as product is shipped in other areas of the world (In no particular order: Canada is different, the rest of Europe is less in qulaity, as is Asia and South America).

I do not believe that Habanos S.A. segregates their cigars, however, doubts linger. Can this be what they really do? Why does Britain charge so much more for their cigars? They have the EMS sticker on their packages (a clever marketing ploy to cover up their incredible VAT taxes!?), or is it true?

I would like to know what the most educated team of cigar brains on the internet thinks! Are the quality grades different depending on where the cigars are shipped in the world, or are all of the cigars Habanos S.A. ships to their distributors the same in quality? I am not an expert, and I would like to get the final verdict from all of you!!!

Thanks for putting up with my ramblings....but as Zep says...Ramble On!!!

Sean

[android]

I would like yo know all the details behind this as well.

[SnakeHips]

I'm obviously no authority on the subject, but I believe it occurs to a small degree. Great Britain charges so much because their tobacco taxes are so high. The 'EMS' sticker is a remnant of times past, when "English Market Selection" was a wrapper type of particular quality exported specifically to England, now just called "claro." "American Market Selection" was another existing term, now called "candela." Currently, I think Spain, England and Hong Kong probably receive the highest quality cigars on average, as these regions make up most of the Cuban cigar market (excluding for now the hypotheses that the United States imports excessive quantities of them despite the embargo), and in particular the wealthiest and most prolific collectors. I only suppose this because it is known (or at least proposed) that less important regions receive lesser-quality Habanos, such as Russia and certain Central and South American countries. It would make sense to me that since the most discerning and wealthiest buyers of Habanos are located in England and Hong Kong and that Spain purchases the most Habanos of any other region, that they would send higher-quality cigars to those regions.

BUT, that's only my logic and hearsay and not definitive knowledge. Rob would be better to answer this, as I would like to know as well.

[Tampa1257]

Just my thoughts, but as product is rolled, sorted, boxed, etc they are then placed inside master cases. With consideration of the employee that is performing this task for approximately $15.00-$20.00 a month salary, does anyone really believe that they would re-sort the master cases for preferred boxes to one location vs another? I don't think so.

[SnakeHips]

Just my thoughts, but as product is rolled, sorted, boxed, etc they are then placed inside master cases. With consideration of the employee that is performing this task for approximately $15.00-$20.00 a month salary, does anyone really believe that they would re-sort the master cases for preferred boxes to one location vs another? I don't think so.

True sir, very true.

[yossie]

If you really want to know, test cigars for UK and Asia pacific with double-blind method which is also used for testing medicine effect.

I can easily imagine the result. People intend to estimate the worth of a thing in its cost not its quality.

[samb]

Interesting topic. State-run factories in Cuba would certainly be interested in sending the highest quality to the biggest buyers right...?

[El Presidente]

Interesting topic. State-run factories in Cuba would certainly be interested in sending the highest quality to the biggest buyers right...?

Yes, I could imagine Phoenecia and PCC allowing the best quality stock to H&F or 5th Avenue

Long time legend perpetrated by the Swiss and Brits to justify over the years the higher prices primarily compared to Spain.

[samb]

Yes, I could imagine Phoenecia and PCC allowing the best quality stock to H&F or 5th Avenue ...

Idk... H&F does have that EMS sticker

[Deano]

I think the answer is right in front of you when you look at the various offerings from Rob's stock.

PSP, HQ, PE, Standard - I'm sure a similar range of quality is sent to other countries.

[jawofboston]

I used to source all my Havanas from two shops in London (in person and by mail) and one in France. Now I'm 90% Czar. The quality has been, for me, the same across these various sources. The only difference among European cigar shops is that the top British shops will, on average, do a better job of ageing and storing their cigars than a lot of shops on the Continent. That fact may have led some to believe the source of the product was superior, when in fact it's just excellent retailing.

[cigarros]

Hi Sean!

Yeah! Your question contain answere - HSA segregates their cigars for different markets. For example in Russia. The situation with deliveries of the Cuban cigars to Russia makes it clear that quality another than for Europe. It's becomes deliberately. This is such policy of HSA on distribution of their production in rather new markets. It occurs as follows:

The cost price of the hand made cigar at the Cuban factory fluctuates from $0,2 to $3. Own profit of the HSA by expert estimations makes 100 %. In Russia 60 % from cigar cost are received by our state is an excise, the VAT and the customs duties. Having received exclusive rights in the russian territory, the importer CC in Russia established cost of a cigar and the size of profit much more that had Habanos S.A. And then HSA have created the parallel "grey" market of cigars. The logic is clear: throwing out on the local markets cigars under the more low prices than from official distributors Habanos S.A. supervised appetites of the last. In the recent past the СС imported some companies to Russia. Some from them have been created for these purposes.

To "white" and "grey" streams of cigars on Cuba have been thought up names - Habanos A and Habanos B. Officially on Cuba annually makes about 110 million cigars and approximately same quantity as experts believe, goes for export under "grey" schemes. How it occurs?

From Cuba production gets on a warehouse in Tallinn, Estonia (small Baltic country near Finland and borders of Russia). There INFIFON II NA, NV.(official representative Habanos S.A. in Russia) glues on boxes excise mark and prepares all necessary documents. How many cigars will cost in Russia - solves INFIFON II NA, NV.

After the exposing company in mass media in 2007-2009 HSA have registered one company in Russia - Top Cigars Inc. Today this company - unique importer of CC to Russia. For a long time I don't smoke CC delivered by russian importers because they has astable quality and cause questions concerning authenticity.

I know that similar events occur in Switzerland. Through this country passed deliveries of counterfeit CC to Russia. For example from swiss Saubrelly company.

This my personal opinion... Cheers!

[MontrealRon]

Fascinating info, Cigarros!

It seems there are many layers to this rather smelly onion.

My question is :

What happens to the considerable number of boxes rejected by Czar and, no doubt,

other quality oriented retailers?

The last thing I would believe is that HSA would take the loss and dump any product,

no matter how poor the quality.

Are they perhaps put out for sale on the Cuban market, ending up in Varadero or airport shops?

Or are they re-shipped to other, less fussy distributors?

After all, we know that in general it is the squeaky wheel that gets the grease.

So, perhaps, part of the reason for inferior cigars in certain markets may simply be that less demanding customers,

and less professional distributors and retailers,

will simply accept whatever they are sent or sold.

Rejecting nothing, their average level of quality is already reduced;

and perhaps HSA, knowing that they reject nothing,

uses them as a dumping ground for others' rejects,

lowering the level even further.

[Jimmy2]

No everyone gets the same for regular production !!! Dont believe the hype !! You will always have better cigars and just good cigars and so on in stock that comes in to the Where houses.

Hell these people cant even roll cigars and blend them perfect on a regular basis they really going to take the time to sort out the most perfect boxes to send to certain countries? I think blending and rolling cigars to the point of almost being perfect is much easier to do if you ask me..

If a vendor does not like what he sees he just sends them back to the MAIN distributor until he gets what he wants when inspecting the boxes himself..

When you go to cigar stores they have the best stock out for Customers to see because they have inspected all their shipments before putting them out for sale its good for sales..Maybe in some countries they dont do this practice but if the market grows they will soon learn form other markets and do the same.If a cigar is of lower quality in certain countries the one thing is the same in all countries the cigar smoker!! and if not happy he will not smoke **** and they will have bad sales and make no money .This is all fairytales from other countries to justify high prices !! I have had boxes from all over and its all the same thing unless your vendor picks out the best by personal inspection !!! (sometimes thats not even 100%)

This might have held true before Castro took over as America was the main market for cigars and hell things were much better overall in the production of cigar back than.

If you want perfect cigars looking and blend (smell) to hope you will get the best of the best you just have to get your vendor to look for you no matter what country they are in its that simple.

These are cigars not magic ! not something special ! its a tobacco leaf it's rolled up and we are to smoke them its the way its always been even when my Family smoked them over 50 + years ago !! Some people in our hobby just like to make it more out than it really is..

Also the UK gets the same cigars as everyone else does one of the biggest lies in our hobby..

[cigarros]

Absolutely true! At the time of the USSR the majority of the CC had the highest quality. In Russia the culture of consumption of cigars has short history. When HSA have understood that the russian consumer is less exacting they're began to deliver cigars that has been rejected by other distributors.

For example, in Russia till now is possible to meet cigars with the Spanish excise signs. These are cigars which were returned by Altadis S.A. - spanish importer CC. Why them have returned? Possibly because quality did not correspond to requirements of the importer. This cigars HSA have shipped on others markets. Importers and distributors in these markets are interested to buy cheaper and sell more expencive in more times. Profit - 200-300 %!!! If customers buy for such money why not to sell? And HSA know about it.....

[cigarros]

No everyone gets the same !!! Dont believe the hype !!

It not lie, I live in Russia and I know about it precisely!

Many times I had to compare the cigars of one brand bought in the different countries with their Russian analogues. And similarity was not found.

We compared france and swiss same cigars http://cigarros.ru/tastings/27.html

France and russians ones http://cigarros.ru/tastings/17.html

Cigars were different.

[semery74]

Cigars are a book that is difficult to judge by the cover. Yea, they could be dark, oily, and smell terrific, but they can still be average. Sorry Rob, but I just can't bring myself to believe in the Premium Select Program. I think it is more of a gamble to shell out the extra dinero for the premium selects as it is to randomly choose one off the shelf and pay the average price. I've be enjoying cigars for the past two decades and experience has shown that you can have a vitola from the same providence, different shades of wrapper, sheen or no sheen, lack of or plentiful penetrating oils, and varying degrees of emanating aroma and still not know what your going to get until you apply the flame to the foot. The only degree of consistency is if the first out of the box is above average the majority will follow suit in various degrees. A lot of that has to do with how well the vintage is being rolled that year.

Case in point: I have been a Monte 2 fan my entire smoking life. I have asked vendors from Spain, UK, Switzerland, and HK for dark to light shades of wrappers. I have collected the entire rainbow of wrapper shades from colorado claro to almost oscuro. The best box I've had were a box of 10 from Spain. Half of that box exhibit a floral honeysuckle aroma that I will never forget or stop searching. What I remembered from that box was that it was average looking, I remember how silky the wrappers were as I sat mesmerized by how magnificent something could taste. Perhaps silky is indicator not to be overlooked? You would have never expected that they would be the best cigars of your life.

[Stalebread]

. . . When HSA have understood that the russian consumer is less exacting they're began to deliver cigars that has been rejected by other distributors. . .

While this may be true, I believe it is a different issue than whether or not HSA deliberately looks for and selects a certain, pre-determined quality cigar to send to, say, the UK.

[Colt45]

What I remembered from that box was that it was average looking, I remember how silky the wrappers were as I sat mesmerized by how magnificent something could taste. Perhaps silky is indicator not to be overlooked? You would have never expected that they would be the best cigars of your life.

Interesting. To me, the smooth, silky, tan to deep tan wrappers are some of the most beautiful to behold. And not trying to persuade anybody

re psp, hq, pe selections, but personally, I do feel there is a difference between randomly choosing a box off the shelf, and having someone who's

looked through thousands and thousands of boxes, seen and smoked the good, bad, and ugly, choose a box for me.

There are no guarantees, especially when all the cigars in a box may not have been rolled by the same roller or even on the same day.

[El Presidente]

It not lie, I live in Russia and I know about it precisely!

Many times I had to compare the cigars of one brand bought in the different countries with their Russian analogues. And similarity was not found.

We compared france and swiss same cigars http://cigarros.ru/tastings/27.html

France and russians ones http://cigarros.ru/tastings/17.html

Cigars were different.

I think Russia is a different case and it goes back to cigars for Russia were (as is my understanding) supplied on a contra basis.

Rumours have always abounded about the Cuban Government (read military) receiving a significant allocation of Cuban Cigars outside of HSA. I suspect (Have no proof) these cigars are destined in part for the contra/internal Govt revenue trade.

Cuban cigar quality does vary as we all know. I have always found (my opinion) that cigars in Cuba as a rule are a lesser quality that are found around the world. There are exceptions of course but spend a day in one of the Divans in Havana and open box after box. I don't see the same level of quality.

The "truth" will be commercial in confidence held tightly at Govt level. My comments are simply supposition.

[El Presidente]

Cigars are a book that is difficult to judge by the cover. Yea, they could be dark, oily, and smell terrific, but they can still be average. Sorry Rob, but I just can't bring myself to believe in the Premium Select Program. I think it is more of a gamble to shell out the extra dinero for the premium selects as it is to randomly choose one off the shelf and pay the average price. I've be enjoying cigars for the past two decades and experience has shown that you can have a vitola from the same providence, different shades of wrapper, sheen or no sheen, lack of or plentiful penetrating oils, and varying degrees of emanating aroma and still not know what your going to get until you apply the flame to the foot. The only degree of consistency is if the first out of the box is above average the majority will follow suit in various degrees. A lot of that has to do with how well the vintage is being rolled that year.

Case in point: I have been a Monte 2 fan my entire smoking life. I have asked vendors from Spain, UK, Switzerland, and HK for dark to light shades of wrappers. I have collected the entire rainbow of wrapper shades from colorado claro to almost oscuro. The best box I've had were a box of 10 from Spain. Half of that box exhibit a floral honeysuckle aroma that I will never forget or stop searching. What I remembered from that box was that it was average looking, I remember how silky the wrappers were as I sat mesmerized by how magnificent something could taste. Perhaps silky is indicator not to be overlooked? You would have never expected that they would be the best cigars of your life.

I love a silky wrapper be they light or dark. Aroma is the other key. The times a cigar has met these parameters and failed to impress in the immediate, short to medium term has been exceptionally rare.

That is all the PSP/HQ/PE program is. To maximise the chance of cigar nirvana.

[Habanos2000]

I just can't bring myself to believe in the Premium Select Program. I think it is more of a gamble to shell out the extra dinero for the premium selects as it is to randomly choose one off the shelf and pay the average price.

I need to put my 2 cents in regarding your position on the PSP selection. For example, valentine's day, you can order a dozen red roses for $20 and you'll get a dozen roses, some may be great some may not. Or you can have the vendor go through his entire inventory and pick out the best that he sees, and he sees a lot. Not that there's anything wrong with ordering "acceptable" quality flowers, but to me a few extra dollars for the pick of the litter is a no-brainer and a service I'm glad to pay for and a value that makes sense.

I've purchased several PSP boxes over the last few months and they have been 95% everything I could have hoped for. In the past the 'average' box was hit and miss. So for me PSP is a proven and cost effective program that I highly recommend (try it and see!) and one that I can't imagine NOT using for every purchase.

[CigarmanTim]

Well I for one can't make every purchase a PSP purchase. I have been purchasing HQ with an occasional PSP. Consider that I am at a different point in filling out my stock. It always seems to be a money "tetrus" that I play trying to get the most bang for my buck keeping in mind quality.

I don't know of another vendor who grades his stock. This peace of mind I am willing to pay a premium for. It doesn't mean I won't get a bad stick or even a bad box. Once I get my supply of stock where I want it, I imagine I will then purchase only PSP. Then again, if I don't stop smoking my existing stock, I will never get there.

[stargazer14]

Rob, maybe you should rename the PSP, HQ and PE sections as world regions...

"Swiss Quality Selections"

"Canadian Selects"

"Stuff we give Ken"

[cigaraholic]

You can't always believe your eyes but the nose never lies.

We've all had cigars that looked great but disappointed us and cigars that looked very plain and were amazing. We make our living with our noses in the wine business and it's the same with cigars. Just let us smell and we'll pick you out the winners.

That "floral honeysuckle" aroma you'll never forget, bet you'd like to go sniffing for another box like that.

Since I'm denied the pleasure of going into a cigar store and selecting my own cigars I can think of no one I'd rather have than Rob to pick out the best.